Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If they push to far we will wipe them from existence. We have the power to do it, they should be smart enough to respect that fact, but at the current time they do not seem to grasp this reality.
Which "they" are you referring to?
If it is the very low level people at the pointy end... you're missing the point.
Reasonable end game? An opinion, direct from my comfy chair:
Re-installation of new, compliant dictatorships in the Middle East and North Africa. Somebody threatenable and bribeable. Realization that the Bush/Obama model of bringing sweetness and light to the area was an abject failure.
This includes backing Assad.
Would probably require replacement of a chunk of the national security state with new people who don't have a stake in the current policy. No doubt won't happen since they are currently in a civil war in Washington.
Reasonable end game? An opinion, direct from my comfy chair:
Re-installation of new, compliant dictatorships in the Middle East and North Africa. Somebody threatenable and bribeable. Realization that the Bush/Obama model of bringing sweetness and light to the area was an abject failure.
This includes backing Assad.
Would probably require replacement of a chunk of the national security state with new people who don't have a stake in the current policy. No doubt won't happen since they are currently in a civil war in Washington.
It goes back to Carter, the liberal airhead who gave us the first ayatollah in Iran.
After that it began to spread.
Obama, being muslim by sharia law aided and abetted them.
It will take marshall law to get the liberals out of the way. Then toss the muslims out.
Its basically going to take a state of war.
As Reagan said " if they want a bloodbath, we'll give them a bloodbath".
There is no winning this war but at least now we have a leader who will name the problem and not dance around the issue.
We can bomb them to no end but there will always be more to refill the ranks. If America was invaded by a foreign force we would fight them like they do us.
The answer is to pull back and contain the spread of terrorism. We have already seen terrorist attacks on our soil so we need to make sure that does not happen again.
It is not popular but travel bans and reducing refugee programs are a way to stop it. When you think about it why would we want to bring in people from countries where the common chant on the streets is "death to America"?
The fear is homegrown terrorism where a young man is influenced by isis and he travels back and forth to his homeland to receive terrorist training. This just happened in Manchester England.
In the end there is no stopping it but we can all be more vigilant and not be so critical of our elected that are trying to keep us safe. We should be critical of the do nothing rhetoric and those who play the blame game.
...European and North American people are patient but only for so long. Each bomb teaches western people to hate and fear muslims, each election is showing more anti Muslim people taking power in western nations. If western civilization keeps getting this pressure on it from the Arab Muslim world there is a possibility that it will lash out at the Muslim world with all its power. ... We western nations have used force but everyone knows we have been holding back in a major way, hoping to reform them or at least teach them to leave us alone. Again all efforts failed. Do they think about what will happen to them when we finally have had it? The day they manage to nuke London, New York or Paris they will likely find out. I believe that is where our humanitarian concerns about unrestrained war will go out the window and the might of western power will descend upon them. The actions and attitudes of Arab muslims make it questionable that they will even exist in 50 years. If they push to far we will wipe them from existence. We have the power to do it, they should be smart enough to respect that fact, but at the current time they do not seem to grasp this reality.
I understand what you are saying.
I look at myself and I see a person who is fascinated with other world cultures. I've traveled to Asia quite a bit, even lived there for a while, saw first hand the Muslim culture in southern Thailand...didn't like it, but tried to understand and be empathetic. Don't feel that other countries and cultures need to be like us. But in the past 3-5 years, I have become totally fed up with the crapola of terrorism. I have gone from being a person who accepted a degree of Muslim immigration here to a person who says "no more". I have gone from being a soft-liner to being much more of a hard-liner in regard to this topic.
And I think so many more Americans are moving toward the "enough is enough" attitude.
If we are talking about Islamic terrorism: country-building and massive funding in the middle-east didn't work (Bush). Appeasement, sticking our head in the sand, and blaming Israel didn't work (Obama).
Now it's just wack-a-mole time. Stamping it out wherever they foster - Syria, Afhiganistan, Libya. I am not talking about military in all cases but intelligence, financial, and covert operations. In the past one or more of these elements have been missing - most recently intelligence. You can't find out what the enemy is doing by simply killing each one with a drone as they pop up. They need to be captured and infiltrated. Absolutely also, these groups cannot be allowed to control land. With land comes the ability to generate revenue - tax the population, sell resources. That was the problem with ISIS.
The above will never truly stamp out terrorism until the muslim community steps up, nothing we do can. But it will reduce risk.
I look at myself and I see a person who is fascinated with other world cultures. I've traveled to Asia quite a bit, even lived there for a while, saw first hand the Muslim culture in southern Thailand...didn't like it, but tried to understand and be empathetic. Don't feel that other countries and cultures need to be like us. But in the past 3-5 years, I have become totally fed up with the crapola of terrorism. I have gone from being a person who accepted a degree of Muslim immigration here to a person who says "no more". I have gone from being a soft-liner to being much more of a hard-liner in regard to this topic.
And I think so many more Americans are moving toward the "enough is enough" attitude.
But have you noticed there aren't any Thai Muslim terrorists in the West? Nor any Indonesian Muslim terrorists in the West...although there are more Indonesian Muslims than any other group.
The fact is that the Islamic doctrine responsible for ALL terrorism in the West is very much identifiable. You can ask a Sufi or Shiite Muslim about it--they'll point the finger.
The problem is that the radical Islamic doctrine is the very doctrine of the Muslim nations "we like the best.' The radical Salafi doctrine responsible for all this terrorism in the West comes from Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
But Saudi Arabia has bought and owns American politicians and media, so they're not going to put the finger on it. They're just going to say, vaguely, "not all Muslims, just the bad ones" when the bad ones are specifically Saudis and those influenced by Saudi doctrine.
Reasonable end game? An opinion, direct from my comfy chair:
Re-installation of new, compliant dictatorships in the Middle East and North Africa. Somebody threatenable and bribeable. Realization that the Bush/Obama model of bringing sweetness and light to the area was an abject failure.
This includes backing Assad.
Would probably require replacement of a chunk of the national security state with new people who don't have a stake in the current policy. No doubt won't happen since they are currently in a civil war in Washington.
Problem with Assad is that he's a Russian client... this is a holdover from the Cold War when his father was a Soviet client. There's no good outcome in Syria for us.
In Obama's 2nd term he seemed to back off trying to change things. But yeah, I think you're right... the solution is probably to back strong-men and just look the other way on their abuses.
The guy who recently blew himself up in Manchester was British, born in Manchester in 1994.
Other than September 11, I think we should keep in mind that Oklahoma City was the worst terrorist event in America, accomplished by an American.
In the age of the internet & social media, I think we have less to fear from foreigners and more to fear from some of our own people who become radicalized of their own accord. Abedi apparently did so quickly. His father and his friends said he was fine as late as 2015. He became disturbed by the death of a friend in May 2016, and went into a hate tunnel, although there are some neighbors that say he had expressed some sympathy for suicide bombers "a few years ago."
Last edited by redguard57; 05-24-2017 at 11:53 AM..
...will never truly stamp out terrorism until the muslim community steps up...
Nope. Not that they aren't needed as well but the shift in thinking needs to START higher up.
But for those at that level... most of whom have supported and financed terrorism to various degrees
and at various times, many currently so as well... there isn't a lot to be gained by changing.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
