Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Like much of what happens in life addiction is often a result of choices we've made.
Addiction is neither moral nor immoral.
It is if it has affects other people... families have been ruined by a drinking parent where money is scarce and kids see fighting in the home... when others are suffering through drink drugs or gambling etc...it is immoral..
Unfortunately society often does enable such people.
As far as those who have a legit medical condition I've got no problem offering a helping hand.
How? I've never seen society enable anyone.
Parents, spouses, friends and children enable people.
Society doesn't want to put up with it, but Mom is at home enabling, funding, whatever, the problem.
Mom or Dad continues to be manipulated into giving money and rides and fixing the wrecked car, meanwhile they've lost their job, they've failed out of college, the only friends they have left are either active addicts themselves or is otherwise an emotionally damaged person or using them in an ersatz prostitution/sugar daddy arrangement, they have warrants out and a judge ready to lock them away if they don't turn it around, the other kids are fed up with it and won't come home since they can see its madness...Society has said enough and only those closest can't see it.
I don't see society enabling. Might they pass less judgement on a homeless veteran than a street criminal? Yes, but that's the extent of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint
It is if it has affects other people... families have been ruined by a drinking parent where money is scarce and kids see fighting in the home... when others are suffering through drink drugs or gambling etc...it is immoral..
The behavior might be, the root cause is not. No different than if someone with schizophrenia or Bi Polar is abusive towards their family. The behavior is not ok, but there's no shame in the underlying condition. Would you say the same thing if someone had depression to the point they couldn't get out of bed, feed the kids, etc?
People generally don't choose to become an addict or a drunk. It's usually because of poor choices they've made. It's not a moral issue. The person isn't necessarily bad or evil. However, because they've gone too far down the path of self-destruction there's usually harm done to others.
Parents, spouses, friends and children enable people.
Society doesn't want to put up with it, but Mom is at home enabling, funding, whatever, the problem.
Mom or Dad continues to be manipulated into giving money and rides and fixing the wrecked car, meanwhile they've lost their job, they've failed out of college, the only friends they have left are either active addicts themselves or is otherwise an emotionally damaged person or using them in an ersatz prostitution/sugar daddy arrangement, they have warrants out and a judge ready to lock them away if they don't turn it around, the other kids are fed up with it and won't come home since they can see its madness...Society has said enough and only those closest can't see it.
I don't see society enabling. Might they pass less judgement on a homeless veteran than a street criminal? Yes, but that's the extent of it.
The behavior might be, the root cause is not. No different than if someone with schizophrenia or Bi Polar is abusive towards their family. The behavior is not ok, but there's no shame in the underlying condition. Would you say the same thing if someone had depression to the point they couldn't get out of bed, feed the kids, etc?
Often by holding society hostage. For example a 19 year old with two kids and no means of support? Someone has to pick up the tab. Sleeping on the side of a store due to a meth habit or whatnot? Call social services or the cops but someone has to move the individual.
Often by holding society hostage. For example a 19 year old with two kids and no means of support?
I don't see how that's relevant to a conversation about addiction. Its certainly a cost to society but society doesn't really enable anyone. In the US, they haven't since 1996.
Quote:
Originally Posted by john3232
Someone has to pick up the tab. Sleeping on the side of a store due to a meth habit or whatnot? Call social services or the cops but someone has to move the individual.
The taxpayer pays, yes, but that isn't enabling them.
The police come and they get carted off to jail. Society isn't enabling them. Maybe they spend a night and are given a fine or maybe they are sent into treatment or maybe they are sentenced to a longer term. None of that is enabling.
Enabling would be if they were "rewarded" for their behavior. Society doesn't do that, not that I see.
My point is society often enables aspects of dysfunctionality by putting a more sympathetic spin on such behavior. Alcoholic? Not my fault. I have a "disease" Live on the streets? Not my fault. I'm "homeless" because ...(fill in the blank)
Many problems are the result of bad choices and a lack of personal responsibly. My alcoholism was caused by my drinking too much and the problems associated because of choices I made.
Now, I like making excuses as much as the next person. However, I wouldn't anyone to cut me slack because I have a "disease"
Genetics, weak-willed or just plain f-up? . I'll check them all off but a disease" no.
My point is society often enables aspects of dysfunctionality by putting a more sympathetic spin on such behavior. Alcoholic? Not my fault. I have a "disease" Live on the streets? Not my fault. I'm "homeless" because ...(fill in the blank)
Many problems are the result of bad choices and a lack of personal responsibly. My alcoholism was caused by my drinking too much and the problems associated because of choices I made.
Now, I like making excuses as much as the next person. However, I wouldn't anyone to cut me slack because I have a "disease"
Genetics, weak-willed or just plain f-up? . I'll check them all off but a disease" no.
That's a cop out.
I'm not sure I believe you were actually in AA? My ex was 16 years sober and they did not have that attitude toward old or new members. I never attended a meeting of course, but my ex was very involved with the group and we did many social things with them on a weekly basis.
In fact the first tenant of AA is to admit that you are powerless over alcohol. So why are some people helpless over alcohol and others can drink and stuff whenever they want ? It is not because the latter people make worst choices it's because they have a genetic physical gene that is affected by alcohol differently than normal people. that is a disease. My ex made a choice every day not to drink but he still has the disease of alcoholism and he always will.
I'm not sure I believe you were actually in AA? My ex was 16 years sober and they did not have that attitude toward old or new members. I never attended a meeting of course, but my ex was very involved with the group and we did many social things with them on a weekly basis.
In fact the first tenant of AA is to admit that you are powerless over alcohol. So why are some people helpless over alcohol and others can drink and stuff whenever they want ? It is not because the latter people make worst choices it's because they have a genetic physical gene that is affected by alcohol differently than normal people. that is a disease. My ex made a choice every day not to drink but he still has the disease of alcoholism and he always will.
In AA it's irrelevant as to why one drinks. What's important is what happens after we take that first drink.
I've been in AA for over 24 years and while it certainly helped there is nothing about the program (12-steps) which is scientific.
And while I agree with those who feel genetics may play a part in who drinks to access and who doesn't it's never been proven. The idea of alcoholism being a disease came into being largely because of AA.
Addiction is not a disease,
it's a mental problem, and it's only a problem when it affects people normal function in our society
Just like gambling,
that's why it is illegal in Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by john3232
In AA it's irrelevant as to why one drinks. What's important is what happens after we take that first drink.
I've been in AA for over 24 years and while it certainly helped there is nothing about the program (12-steps) which is scientific.
And while I agree with those who feel genetics may play a part in who drinks to access and who doesn't it's never been proven. The idea of alcoholism being a disease came into being largely because of AA.
Then why do you keep insisting that to call it a disease is the same as giving people a pass?
I will argue till the cows come home it's not a mental problem, but I am not going to keep rehashing the same arguments I've already made on multi-pages here, nothing will come of it, so let's just agree to disagree on that point.
Then why do you keep insisting that to call it a disease is the same as giving people a pass?
I will argue till the cows come home it's not a mental problem, but I am not going to keep rehashing the same arguments I've already made on multi-pages here, nothing will come of it, so let's just agree to disagree on that point.
Not necessarily a pass but a more sympathetic explanation as to why one drinks to excess. It's more sympathetic to suggest one has a disease than it is to hold a person actions to a strict accountability.
Last edited by john3232; 08-15-2017 at 08:10 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
