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I have seen several times that high school students need to learn civics in high school and that they sometimes don't know about U.S. History or the Constitution. I would argue that there is a very good and logical reason for this, lack of time.
I have stated for years, long before I came on City -Data the first time that there is too much U.S. history to be taught in school. We do a disservice to our students to teach three years of U.S. History and three years of World History. There is too much history for 40 to 60 minutes of class in a 180 day a year school schedule or a semester of college classes at 50 minutes three times a week or 75 minutes two days a week.
To teach civics in an already crammed history course is irresponsible. It should be a separate mandatory class for high school students. I don't know why it isn't. It shouldn't intersect with how we do history like it does for 12th grade
What do you think about both parts?
Seriously? Look at European history; hundreds of years, 1000+ yrs. of Kings, continental migrations and invasions, battles, church issues, overseas exploration and colonies, etc. And it all gets covered in school. And you're whining about a lousy 300 years or so? Wimp.
And btw, what schools teach 3 yrs. of US history? In my school, it was only 1 year. Civics is a separate course, not "crammed into [the] history course", and it's typically just 1 semester. We didn't even have World History; there was no such course in my school, and in the schools that did offer it, it wasn't required. (Or...? Are things different in your state?) What my state required was World Geography in highschool, 1 semester. Kids loved it! Learning about all manner of exotic cultures and countries.
Well, history is taught that way because at elementary levels the kids are very limited as to what they can understand. So there, it's the most like the introductory section of Wikipedia -- a very general overview. By middle and high school, more complex concepts can be taught, so it is taught again at that very different level.
They can and they ahould but IMHO they aren't. They weren't when i was going to school and they aren't really now from what I've seen. History is a course of subject of what you make of it. There are very relevant things in it to the present day, even keeping politics out of the argument.
Seriously? Look at European history; hundreds of years, 1000+ yrs. of Kings, continental migrations and invasions, battles, church issues, overseas exploration and colonies, etc. And it all gets covered in school. And you're whining about a lousy 300 years or so? Wimp.
Nice ad hom. Allow me to make a rebutal?
The issue with U.S. history is magnified with world history. U.S. is really from the 1490's in the history books even though Indigenous tribes existed in what would become America for a millennia before the first Vikings settled in Greenland and Canada, let alone Columbus and Vespucci.
1490's or 1600's to now is a lot, try adding a millennia or two or three on top of it with ancient civilizations like Mesopotamia, Egypt, India, China, Greece, Rome, etc. Yeah makes cramming U.S. history into three years seem easy right? Guess what, it still isn't and things will get white-washed and glossed over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
And btw, what schools teach 3 yrs. of US history? In my school, it was only 1 year. Civics is a separate course, not "crammed into [the] history course", and it's typically just 1 semester. We didn't even have World History; there was no such course in my school, and in the schools that did offer it, it wasn't required. (Or...? Are things different in your state?) What my state required was World Geography in highschool, 1 semester. Kids loved it! Learning about all manner of exotic cultures and countries.
Basically in New York and Arizona is mostly similar it is two years of World History to one year of U.S. History. That said, middle school it is flipped. Not as sure in AZ but N.Y. it was. Here's the breakdowns from about 12 years ago:
6th Grade World Historty: Mespotamia, Egypt, Greece, Rome, The Crusades, Middle Ages/Mideval Times
7th Grade U.S. History: Colonial origins, French and Indian War, the taxes, Revoultionary War, The Constitution, XYZ Affair,, Louisiana pyrchase, War of 1812, Monroe Doctrine, lead up to Civil War, Civil War
8th Grade U.S. History: Reconstruction, the Indian Wars, the Progressive Era, Spanish-American War, Theodore Roosevelt, World War 1, the Roaring 20's (glossed over), The Great Depression, World War 2, The Cold War, the Red Scare, Korean War
9th Grade World History: Mesopotamia, Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece, Rome, Ancient India, Ancient China, the Muslim Empire, The Crusades
10th Grade World History: Enlightenment, the French Revolution, the Napoleanoic Wars, the change of monarchs to democracy, World War 1, Russian Revolution, World War 2, the Cold War
11th Grade U.S. History: The Great Society, Lobbying and, Vietnam were the three main topics I remember... It was mostly regent test prep.
12th grade: Government and Economics or Contemporary Business
In N.Y. there was no proper civics class, nor is there in AZ, just a silly test for AZ hough school students I could answer right in my sleep.
From my breakdown, it is clear to see an overlap in high school World History. 9th and 10th grade World History had a lot of overlap with 6th grade World History for 9th and 10th with 8th Grade and some 11th Grade U.S. History.
It is my understanding that there is quite a bit of overlap between civics and government at the high school level. My kids' high school requires a semester of government, which was also the case for me thirty-some years ago.
In our district, there is also an emphasis on civics during eighth grade. History is a separate subject, as is geography. At the high school level, only one year each of U.S. History and World History and one semester each of U.S. Government and another Social Studies elective of the student's choice are required. Options include courses like World Geography, Psychology, History of Ancient Rome, Economics, Modern American History, World War I & II, and Anthropology, among others, along with a full set of AP Social Studies courses.
I have seen several times that high school students need to learn civics in high school and that they sometimes don't know about U.S. History or the Constitution. I would argue that there is a very good and logical reason for this, lack of time.
I'm so old that when I was a kid, we didn't have history class-- only current events.
America is dumbing down because educators underestimate our kids and don't demand enough of them. They can handle a lot more, but time is an issue. We needn't teach history in great detail at the lower levels-- just introduce the basics. By junior hi kids can start to get into causes & effects.
Educators should not concentrate so much on teaching details to be learned but rather on teaching methods to learn: researching sources of data and thinking analytically. Facts are useless without the skills to use them.
As a kid I learned more history and geography playing Age of Empires, Rise of Nations, Civilization, and other military strategy games than anything I ever learned in school.
I'm so old that when I was a kid, we didn't have history class-- only current events.
America is dumbing down because educators underestimate our kids and don't demand enough of them. They can handle a lot more, but time is an issue. We needn't teach history in great detail at the lower levels-- just introduce the basics. By junior hi kids can start to get into causes & effects.
Educators should not concentrate so much on teaching details to be learned but rather on teaching methods to learn: researching sources of data and thinking analytically. Facts are useless without the skills to use them.
I think you need to focus more. According to you, America is dumbing down because:
1. educators underestimate our kids and don't demand enough of them
2. time is an issue
3. Educators should not concentrate so much on teaching details to be learned
4. Educators should teach methods to learn: researching sources of data and thinking analytically.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of them, although I will take exception to some degree with #1. Watch a school demand more...and watch a community throw a hissy fit.
Teachers, how is it possible that so many college kids give quizzical looks when asked who we fought in WWII, the Civil War, etc? Serious question.
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