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Early grades like 4th or 5th is where some of the gee whiz ancient history stuff might 'hook' kids into being interested in history. I got hooked and was writing letters off to Mexico City and Cairo on my own in 5th grade and got responses from museums on Aztec and Egyptian antiquities. My daughter got hooked on the Titanic movie and went to the historical society and read the original newspaper reports on microfilm-- about thirteen years old.
I think that can happen in any subject though. That said New York while VERY mandatory in what is needed to graduate including 4 years of history, 4 years of English, 4 years of physical education, 3 years of math, 3 years of science, anywhere from 1 to 3 years of foreign language, 1 year of arts, and half of year of health. I think I am missing one or two more namely electives, but "civics" and current events were not course topics. Due to topics needed in New York, this would cause fewer electives to learn yourself.
Hmmm. What I'm seeing is that New York currently requires the following for a Regents Diploma:
1 year U.S. History
1 semester Participation in Government
1 semester Economics
2 years additional Social Studies credits
That's four years of Social Studies, which is a broad category, not History.
Hmmm. What I'm seeing is that New York currently requires the following for a Regents Diploma:
1 year U.S. History
1 semester Participation in Government
1 semester Economics
2 years additional Social Studies credits
That's four years of Social Studies, which is a broad category, not History.
The two years were world history for me as well as my brother (same school/district), not elective at all. It could be in other schools. However after the end of monarchies in Europe, largely 10th grade World History was U.S. History with the two World Wars and the Cold War as the main topics. Plus in my district, 7th and 8th grade were U.S. history with topics in the World Wars and the Cold War. Not trying to diminish the importance to these wars, but they are overdone in school, especially with little different talked about from 8th grade to 10th and 11th.
I also did not do Participation in Government and Economics actually, instead I did "Contemporary Business" my senior year. This satisfied these somehow. Voodoo or something, I am not sure.
The larger point I was mentioning was mentioning in the post to which you are replying to is that there is simply too many mandatory courses New York has as mandatory. Arizona is mostly similar but a little more flexible with only needing 3 Social Studies credits with far more electives than New York.
I didn't know that the assassination of Lincoln was an attempted Coup, that is a pretty important detail in our history that should be included.
There is a lot happening leading up to 9/11 and after but the youth today don't know a world without terrorism. All they know is foggy information from the internet.
I think an Associate's Degree would help our youth get out of there bubble where they grew up and expand their knowledge of the world from differing perspectives.
We're not talking about learning "too much histoyr", we're talking about can so much history content be squeezed into a curriculum.
We're not talking about learning "too much histoyr", we're talking about can so much history content be squeezed into a curriculum.
That's why I recommend an Associate's degree.
I know several teachers across the country and they have a similar perspective, if the parents of the students don't get involved they won't have any interest in school.
Separate civics course, yes. This may be the only thing that will stick with many kids.
Three years of history in high school in the age the smart phone, FB, the internet, etc. Get real, most of the kids are going to forget 95% before they even leave. I have been a teacher too, and this type of education is long past its use-by date. This is the era of the lifetime adolescence and a life of living life as entertainment.
At best the civics course may have a positive impact.
Separate civics course, yes. This may be the only thing that will stick with many kids.
Three years of history in high school in the age the smart phone, FB, the internet, etc. Get real, most of the kids are going to forget 95% before they even leave. I have been a teacher too, and this type of education is long past its use-by date. This is the era of the lifetime adolescence and a life of living life as entertainment.
At best the civics course may have a positive impact.
You can say that about mossy school though. Who needs English, we got apellcheck and grammarcheck. Who needs math when we have calculators on our smartphones. See the problem? Why stop at one subject?
I have seen several times that high school students need to learn civics in high school and that they sometimes don't know about U.S. History or the Constitution. I would argue that there is a very good and logical reason for this, lack of time.
I have stated for years, long before I came on City -Data the first time that there is too much U.S. history to be taught in school. We do a disservice to our students to teach three years of U.S. History and three years of World History. There is too much history for 40 to 60 minutes of class in a 180 day a year school schedule or a semester of college classes at 50 minutes three times a week or 75 minutes two days a week.
To teach civics in an already crammed history course is irresponsible. It should be a separate mandatory class for high school students. I don't know why it isn't. It shouldn't intersect with how we do history like it does for 12th grade
What do you think about both parts?
If "there is too much U.S. history to be taught in school," should we just skip history since it is an impossible task to teach it? Is there too much math, chemistry or biology to teach in school?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj
When I was in school, we had one semester of civics, we learned about government from the local level to the federal level and after the semester we walked away with a very good understanding on how governments worked. I don't understand the problem with teaching both history and civics or the need to sacrifice one for the other. Civics is a simple class, our governments are not so complicated that it takes years to teach it, I mean after all, we are not trying to produce Constitutional Lawyers in middle school.
When I attended school 44 years ago, we had a one semester geography class in 7th grade in addition to ancient history. Eighth grade was US history; t was the height of Vietnam and the 1968 election. Ninth grade was 9 weeks of PA history and the remainder was civics. Tenth grade was world cultures, which is the same as world history since around 1500. Eleventh grade was US history. Twelfth grade was Problems of Democracy, which was another name for civics or government. I've subbed for social studies in about a dozen schools and they don't vary that much from what I had. They don't teach PA history anymore. Some schools have a year of geography, others do not have a separate geography class. Many schools try to combine a government and economics class usually in 12th grade. Since 6th grade is typically now in middle school as opposed to elementary school, students typically have a full fledged year of US history in that year. Most students end up with at least 3 years of US History from 6th through 12th grade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent
I never believed that all of history could be taught in twelve years of schooling, which presents just a survey of the highlights. The study of history is a lifetime pursuit that waxes and wanes with age and interest. I did not discover my passion for early American history until middle age. As for civics, that's something I think does deserve adequate school time and resources, because our young people are preparing to vote, which requires a thorough understanding of how government works. Fortunately, I believe every state requires at least one semester of Government/Civics for graduation.
Yes, obviously a student is only going to get a survey of the highlights. In addition, many teachers waste a lot of time and could teach much more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
No, actually it is exactly the topic.
When you teach any subject, you have to begin by developing the curriculum. And whatever the content area, there's always more content than you can teach in any given period of time. So the first thing you have to do is determine what about the content you will include, and what about the content you will exclude. And that gets down immediately to the question of is there too much history and civics to teach in school. When I taught the earth science curriculum I didn't even teach 5% of the content that I knew about geology, meteorology, climate, oceanography, etc.
This is particularly true when you're talking about various ages of children who have varying abilities to comprehend and master certain aspects of content. So to say you have 12 years to teach "it", isn't realistic. Nothing sophisticated and comprehensive about world history (for example) can be taught to 5 years olds or even 11 year olds. They can get a taste. A little more with junior high/middle school kids. More with highs school kids. Way more with college students.
These are good points. Many teachers get bogged down on certain topics and class projects and don't cover what they should have covered in the school year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent
That's a difficult request. Textbooks for history classes can vary dramatically based on the topic being taught. My own kids' high school teaches general U.S. History in 9th grade and World History in 10th grade, but there are additional courses for specific topics, like the Great Wars I & II, the Vietnam era, and modern history. And there is also a full suite of AP courses. To add to the confusion, students also have the opportunity to take Humanities, which combines English with History. When my kids took it, the course covered Reconstruction through Civil Rights. Even in just one high school, kids may graduate with vastly different experiences studying history. Who's to say what's actually being taught? There are some basic state standards, but in reality, it's all over the map.
If you look at school textbooks for US history and world history, you will find that each history textbook is similar to the competition textbooks. Three big publishing companies (Pearson, McGraw-Hill, and Houghton Mifflin Harcourt) control about 90 percent of the market and content differences between books are minor. See American Textbook Council - Widely Adopted History Textbooks. OTOH, it really doesn't matter since many schools are now purchasing one set of textbooks per classroom and students don't take them home and read them like in the old days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
We're not talking about learning "too much histoyr", we're talking about can so much history content be squeezed into a curriculum.
This is an excellent point and one that many teachers miss. If you're teaching US History, a teacher should be teaching 45 more years of history than when I last took a high school US history class. Or maybe you just hope nobody notices that you only covered up to dropping the atom bomb and the end of WWII. We never made it to the Korean War when I was in school so why expect today's teachers to cover more than that.
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Plus in my district, 7th and 8th grade were U.S. history with topics in the World Wars and the Cold War.
Not trying to diminish the importance to these wars, but they are overdone in school, especially with little different talked about from 8th grade to 10th and 11th.