Why must there be "White Guilt" to resolve racism? (cocaine, attorney)
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Someone said above, "What is needed is awareness, understanding, and taking responsibility for one's part in a racist system and the perpetuation of racism."
So...what does "taking responsibility for one's part in a racist system and the perpetuation of racism" actually MEAN? What concrete, tangible behavior do you want to see? I think many of us are struggling to know what exactly this type of statement means, what we are supposed to be doing.
Please give CONCRETE examples.
With this, you buy into the ridiculousness of the entire argument. Don't do it! If you aren't engaging in racist actions/activities, you don't need to do anything other than to go on living your life as a responsible, productive member of society.
How do you know that people come here to "run their mouth"? I come here because I want to retire into an area of the Bronx which is only 3.5% white, and am trying to gauge whether that would be safe. The area is somewhat on the upswing economically, so many of my neighbors there are Latino and Black professionals or otherwise gainfully employed (as you are evidently unaware, education and employment are very much within the contemporary mainstream Black culture, not limited to Dr Carson) - they are pleasant, normal neighbors, and their race or mine is thoroughly irrelevant to them or to me. What I worry about are the "minority activists" in the Bronx, who DO run their mouth instead of taking care of their own life so they are not a burden and nuisance to the society, who see any white face in the neighborhood as "taking away Latino and Black culture", so whites should be prevented by any means possible from moving into "their" neighborhoods. Those are the proponents of the idea that white people are automatically guilty ("because of the history"), and owe something/everything to non-whites, including owing them the entire borough of the Bronx. I come on this forum to see how strong such warped ideas actually are, and whether I should scratch the Bronx retirement plan because of them.
Re "selfless giving", my observation is that people give "selflessly" mostly because that boosts their ego, ie, if there is somebody to whom you can give a handout, it clearly allows you to feel superior to that person. Equal standards for everyone, without beggars and givers, are far more respectful to everyone.
In Baltimore I run into even more extreme situation where people (often white people) are upset because a few white people move into a neighborhoods that still have a significant white minority and were majority white just a generation or so ago. It is as if, once a neighborhood tips to majority black white people are supposed to stop moving there. Then other black people complain about segregation. I realize that the two different complaints are coming from black people with different points of view, but it is hard for white people to navigate the situation and do the right thing - since even black people can't agree on what the right thing is.
By the way, I am a white person who has lived on a mostly black block for more than ten years. On my block there are probably as many different opinion on whether having white neighbors is appropriate as there are neighbors. My personal opinion is that everybody should be encouraged to live wherever they want. But... that's just me.
Could it possibly be that people are incarcerated because they have been convicted of committing a crime, rather than for the color of their skin?
Of course there are people, including Black people, who are simply in prison for committing a crime.
But that does not say that the criminal justice system is really blind.
Of course there are people, including Black people, who are simply in prison for committing a crime.
But that does not say that the criminal justice system is really blind.
I neither said nor implied any such thing.
However, understand the nature of the post that I was responding to. The common narrative is that the fact that blacks are incarcerated at a much higher rate than other racial groups is prima facie evidence of racism. Is that something that you believe as well?
Of course there are people, including Black people, who are simply in prison for committing a crime.
But that does not say that the criminal justice system is really blind.
I neither said nor implied any such thing.
However, understand the nature of the post that I was responding to. The common narrative is that the fact that blacks are incarcerated at a much higher rate than other racial groups is prima facie evidence of racism. Is that something that you believe as well?
I agree with TaxPhd but phetaroi has a point. For crimes below the most serious level, white people or better said middle and upper middle class people are more likely to be released on recognizance or very low bail. That means, as a practical matter, when their case comes up after some adjournments the plea will usually involve some form of a suspended sentence or conditional discharge. For lower class people they are more likely to be incarcerated for a while.
The reason I can see this happening is that the lower class people, often black, don't come to court with mothers and/or wives. Thus there is no visible support system. When I personally had a minor scrape a few years ago my wife was with me for the six or so court appearances. That goes down quite well. Not so much if your support system is 16 year old gang members.
I agree with TaxPhd but phetaroi has a point. For crimes below the most serious level, white people or better said middle and upper middle class people are more likely to be released on recognizance or very low bail. That means, as a practical matter, when their case comes up after some adjournments the plea will usually involve some form of a suspended sentence or conditional discharge. For lower class people they are more likely to be incarcerated for a while.
The reason I can see this happening is that the lower class people, often black, don't come to court with mothers and/or wives. Thus there is no visible support system. When I personally had a minor scrape a few years ago my wife was with me for the six or so court appearances. That goes down quite well. Not so much if your support system is 16 year old gang members.
I don't necessarily disagree. But has this actually been quantified? What does the actual data say? Is it really an apples to apples to comparison? Two guys get charged with shoplifting under $100. White guy gets released on recognizance, black guy gets locked up. Or, is it white guy gets released, black guy gets locked up. Racism! But when investigated further, white guy had shoplifting under $100 (and no criminal record), black guy had armed robbery charge (with multiple priors).
I don't know the answer, but I'd be curious to read something authoritative about it.
However, understand the nature of the post that I was responding to. The common narrative is that the fact that blacks are incarcerated at a much higher rate than other racial groups is prima facie evidence of racism. Is that something that you believe as well?
I believe that the criminal justice system works differently for professionals than common laborers or the unemployed (in fact, experienced that -- was in a situation where people were being intensely searched...NOT strip searched...and questioned; the minority guy ahead of me was searched and questioned for about 12 minutes; when I came next the officer asked what I did for a living, and when I said "principal" he said "Okay you can go" with no search and no other questions or ID check).
I believe that the criminal justice system works far differently for people with lawyers who charge $1,500 per hour than for people who have a public defender.
I believe that the criminal justice system works differently for professionals than common laborers or the unemployed (in fact, experienced that -- was in a situation where people were being intensely searched...NOT strip searched...and questioned; the minority guy ahead of me was searched and questioned for about 12 minutes; when I came next the officer asked what I did for a living, and when I said "principal" he said "Okay you can go" with no search and no other questions or ID check).
I believe that the criminal justice system works far differently for people with lawyers who charge $1,500 per hour than for people who have a public defender.
And I don't disagree with this. But is this a class issue, or a race issue?
You are African American, correct? In the example you gave above, you and another minority were questioned by police. Was the different treatment that he experienced compared to you because of his race? Nope. Class.
And I don't disagree with this. But is this a class issue, or a race issue?
You are African American, correct? In the example you gave above, you and another minority were questioned by police. Was the different treatment that he experienced compared to you because of his race? Nope. Class.
I'm not sure you can necessarily separate class and race issues in many cases.
No, you are not correct. I am White.
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