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Old 12-25-2017, 10:48 AM
 
91 posts, read 49,213 times
Reputation: 140

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What is does is provide a starting point for action. A beginning. And a rather unique beginning since now every country in the world has some common focus of at least acknowledging the problem. Every nation except one.
Of course they do. They stand to economically, politically globalistically benefit from the de-growthing of America.

So you get to ride a bike while China et al do nothing about nothing. Yeah, they're totally smarter than we are.

Just like the UN. Oh wait.
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:08 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,680,034 times
Reputation: 23268
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
1. The US has an interest in preventing climate change. The Paris Treaty is not perfect, but moves everyone in the right direction. Trump's withdrawal from the accord makes the USA the only nation in the world that no longer adheres to the Paris Treaty. If you blithely dismiss the treaty as not doing anything constructive about climate change than you take a position that is literally at odds with every other country in the world.

The reality is Trump withdrew America from this treaty to appease some people in the fossil fuel industry, supporters in places like West Virginia and Kentucky, and nut reactionary groups who believe there are things like "one world government".

2. Recognition of Jerusalem as capitol of Israel. This is a complex issue and too many people fail to grasp the nuances involved in it. By moving the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, the USA sends a message that it is no longer an honest broker who is attempting to resolve issues between Israel and the Palestinians. Rather, this move signals the USA is now firmly on Israel's side period. As such, the USA no longer has the credibility to act as a neutral broker in this dispute. I have other issues with Trump's action as well. Any real negotiator who was considering such a move would have extracted a concession from Israel first. Perhaps, they could have agreed to stop building settlements on the West Bank? Trump's failure to ask for anything in return, leads me to (1) question his negotiating skills; and (2) do anything in the Middle East that isn't 100% pro Israel. I personally think moving the embassy should wait until an overall resolution of the Israel-Palestinian conflict takes place. If it takes fifty years, fine. Meanwhile, we still have an embassy in Tel Aviv. Israel has the right to designate its capitol. The USA has a right to say where it will maintain an embassy in a country.

I suspect the real reason this occurred was because of two people: Jared Kushner (Trump's son-in-law) and Sheldon Adelson (a huge contributor to the republican party). In any event, its poor foreign policy to simply be acting on the wishes of a couple of people.

The reality is that neither of these two actions are in the long term interest of the American people.
Isn't the resolution to move been approved and on the books for years?

Didn't it take an exemption to keep it from moving?
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,822 posts, read 24,335,838 times
Reputation: 32953
Quote:
Originally Posted by factcheckcd View Post
Of course they do. They stand to economically, politically globalistically benefit from the de-growthing of America.

So you get to ride a bike while China et al do nothing about nothing. Yeah, they're totally smarter than we are.

Just like the UN. Oh wait.
The de-growthing (is that even a word?) of America is caused by America. Just yesterday I read a rather long article about China's infrastructure projects. Stunning. Meanwhile, our infrastructure projects...piddling. That's no one's fault other than our own. We don't even do great things in our own country anymore.
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,216 posts, read 11,338,692 times
Reputation: 20828
The concept of "greater common good" has probably been used to legitimize more of man's inhumanity to man than any other misguided idea an all of history.
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Old 12-25-2017, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,169 posts, read 24,334,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
It will be a cold day in hell before that happens.
Until it does, all the well-meaning Paris Accords mean nothing.
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Old 12-25-2017, 04:32 PM
 
Location: moved
13,656 posts, read 9,717,813 times
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Leadership carries a price. The United States is overwhelmingly the leading nation in the world - financially, militarily, culturally, scientifically. This is where ideas get developed and promulgated. This is where patents get filed and companies get formed.

The price of leadership is systematic and intentional sublimation of the self, for the sake of others. The leader of a group is the last to escape from a dangerous scene, the last in line to receive fresh supplies, the last to have his/her wish fulfilled. Simply put, it falls to the leader to "take one for the team". What would be perfectly reasonable and acceptable national self-assertion for Germany, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, or whomever else, would be crass and undignified for the world's leader, America.
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Old 12-25-2017, 05:18 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,071 posts, read 17,024,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by notrhj View Post
Want a 40 % Reduction ? Let China & India Cut their emissions by 5 %
It will be a cold day in hell before that happens.
Until it does, all the well-meaning Paris Accords mean nothing.
That's exactly my point. China and India will make noises of varying degrees of niceness or defiance but in the final analysis they'll do what's best for the country or its leaders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Leadership carries a price. The United States is overwhelmingly the leading nation in the world - financially, militarily, culturally, scientifically. This is where ideas get developed and promulgated. This is where patents get filed and companies get formed.

The price of leadership is systematic and intentional sublimation of the self, for the sake of others. The leader of a group is the last to escape from a dangerous scene, the last in line to receive fresh supplies, the last to have his/her wish fulfilled. Simply put, it falls to the leader to "take one for the team". What would be perfectly reasonable and acceptable national self-assertion for Germany, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, or whomever else, would be crass and undignified for the world's leader, America.
Has that ever happened in history? The closest analogy would be an agreement in 1938 whereby the UK took one for the team and allowed Germany to take a chunk of Czechoslovakia called the Sudetenland. A year later full-scale war broke out anyway.

The next closest analogy would be the beneficence of the democracies at the Yalta summit. "Uncle Joe" Stalin agreed to allow Eastern Europe to chart its own destiny. The promise was honored; in 1989. In between Czechoslovakia's Benes was thrown down a fliight of stairs to his death (I think), Hungary was invaded in 1956, Czechoslovakia was invaded in 1968 after the Prague Spring, Poland was pressured to clamp down in 1980-1 against Solidarity, to the response of "coordinated cries of anguish and nicely orchestrated hand-wringing" (William Safire, a New York Times columnist, writing in the December 11, 1980 issue in connection with West's supine response on Russian aggression towards Poland [link]).

See also Post #5 (link) for the nice results of unilateral concessions.
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Old 12-25-2017, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,216 posts, read 11,338,692 times
Reputation: 20828
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Leadership carries a price. The United States is overwhelmingly the leading nation in the world - financially, militarily, culturally, scientifically. This is where ideas get developed and promulgated. This is where patents get filed and companies get formed.

The price of leadership is systematic and intentional sublimation of the self, for the sake of others. The leader of a group is the last to escape from a dangerous scene, the last in line to receive fresh supplies, the last to have his/her wish fulfilled. Simply put, it falls to the leader to "take one for the team". What would be perfectly reasonable and acceptable national self-assertion for Germany, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, or whomever else, would be crass and undignified for the world's leader, America.
To borrow from the wisdom of someone else, "YOU NAILED IT!"

There is far too much hatred toward the present leadership only because the hate-mongers didn't their way -- and their way involves silencing all opposition via the rigid orthodoxy of Political Correctness, appointing rubber-stamp justices whose only "standard" is blind loyalty, and turning the economy into a dispenser of economic penny-candy to the unmotivated --- who are expected to remain in the thrall of the dogma force-fed by their captive "educational" bureaucracy.

In short, the goal of the Great Lynch Mob is to undermine 250 years of Enlightenment, and to send us marching backward (in lock-step, no less) into the Age of Barbarism. Trump was elected only as the lesser of two evils; because so many of us saw power in his hands as less of a threat than power concentrated in the hands of the much stronger (and just as greedy) Clinton/Obama Machine.

Somewhere out there, there's a legatee to the handful of true American statesmen; Lincoln AND F.D.R, Truman AND Eisenhower, Washington AND Reagan. Bernie Sanders lies to depict himself as such, but he's just another Trump in disguise; a peddler of simple answers to a simple following.

And a special thanks to Exhibits 'A' through 'E' below for demonstrating the point;

//www.city-data.com/forum/polit...l#post49008490

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 12-25-2017 at 07:08 PM..
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Old 12-25-2017, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,822 posts, read 24,335,838 times
Reputation: 32953
The OPs vision of what American foreign policy is basically carry a big stick. There's no talk softly part in it. It's essentially the freedom to bully the rest of the world into doing what we say. Unfortunately that is not a way to win friends, and in the long run does not gain respect for this nation. There is a huge difference between respect and fear.
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Old 12-25-2017, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,216 posts, read 11,338,692 times
Reputation: 20828
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
The OPs vision of what American foreign policy is basically carry a big stick. There's no talk softly part in it. It's essentially the freedom to bully the rest of the world into doing what we say. Unfortunately that is not a way to win friends, and in the long run does not gain respect for this nation. There is a huge difference between respect and fear.
A policeman on his beat isn't out to win everybody's faux friendship; he's out there to keep the bad guys in line, and in the process, win the respect of the majority still trying to play by the rules; if you can't see this, you are the one who needs to look a little closer.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 12-25-2017 at 07:09 PM..
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