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I'll tell you what hasn't changed, our attitude toward suicide. Because suicide is what almost all of these mass shooters were actually engaged in.
Where suicide is an act of hopelessness, killing others is an act of anger and revenge.
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Originally Posted by Am I a Prophet
Some people just don't seem capable of doing it, unless they kill others in the process.
Not sure how we got to the point where someone needs to kill others in order to justify taking their own life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am I a Prophet
If you look at self-esteem as an issue, you will discover that the portion of the population which has the highest level of self-esteem lives in the nation's prisons. That means that those who think more of themselves are most likely to commit acts toward others which might put them in prison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am I a Prophet View Post
If you look at self-esteem as an issue, you will discover that the portion of the population which has the highest level of self-esteem lives in the nation's prisons. That means that those who think more of themselves are most likely to commit acts toward others which might put them in prison.>>
What?>
He's talking about people thinking they are above the law, can do what they want, can take what they want because they deserve it.
One change is the notion that a "good guy with a gun" is what we need to counteract mass shootings. Arm teachers? Please don't arm any I had. Maybe armed security at every school, church, theater, Walmart? That's a third-world solution and hasn't worked plus the "good guy" is likely to get shot by police or security. In no way is more guns a solution to too many guns.
We also seem to have crossed the line where conflict resolution was the issue in the workplace, family, or neighborhood to a place where ideology is more often a primary motivation. Cooler heads cannot prevail if someone is motivated by racism or extreme politics. It is still crazy people with guns but the motivation has a new dimension.
One change is the notion that a "good guy with a gun" is what we need to counteract mass shootings. Arm teachers? Please don't arm any I had. Maybe armed security at every school, church, theater, Walmart? That's a third-world solution and hasn't worked plus the "good guy" is likely to get shot by police or security. In no way is more guns a solution to too many guns.
We also seem to have crossed the line where conflict resolution was the issue in the workplace, family, or neighborhood to a place where ideology is more often a primary motivation. Cooler heads cannot prevail if someone is motivated by racism or extreme politics. It is still crazy people with guns but the motivation has a new dimension.
What you have to come to terms with is: guns aren't going anywhere. That whole Second Amendment thing.
Once you accept that, maybe you will have a better grasp of the situation.
I'll tell you what hasn't changed, our attitude toward suicide. Because suicide is what almost all of these mass shooters were actually engaged in. Some people just don't seem capable of doing it, unless they kill others in the process. Loneliness is an important part of depression which can lead to suicidal thoughts. You can't ask them, because most of these shooters are dead, but I speculate that their depression which brought them to this point was brought on by some sort of loneliness.
I don't know, however, that the natural answer that comes to us, of increasing self-esteem, is the right answer. If you look at self-esteem as an issue, you will discover that the portion of the population which has the highest level of self-esteem lives in the nation's prisons. That means that those who think more of themselves are most likely to commit acts toward others which might put them in prison.
And the sort of loneliness which causes others to act out upon those who isolated them, is an act of high self-esteem, as those people don't ask themselves whether they needed to change anything about themselves. They are gods, it would seem, and those others ought to have been worshiping them. No wonder they were isolated. They say that, in our age, narcissism is increasing.
And, yet, many of these shooters were only kids. Surely, they couldn't have formed such a self-image at this early stage. Unless, it was a thing they were trying out, in order to figure out the world. Obviously, they could see a way that was considered 'normal,' but they weren't participating in it. Many of the school shooters had been bullied. And simply growing up in an American high school exposes a person to all sorts of social circumstances in which a person who is different may not fit, and, therefore, feels the same things that someone who is bullied will feel. But it's okay to ask people to conform in this manner, isn't it?
Hmmmm, I wonder where the lines really are, when this type of socialization is taking place over a winner take all impulse that lingers, always, in the background. Now, especially, we ought to think about that, since we are expanding wealth inequality at a greater and greater pace. Wealth is how we are asked, eventually, to take stock of ourselves. These kids, perhaps, could see how bleak their futures were, and decided now was the time to 'act out' rather than shoot a bunch of coworkers.
How are we going to change that? Should we? By how much? Can something like seeing the integrity of others, such that egregious behaviors and ways of thinking are seen as things to rein in by those consigned to think those sorts of terrible thoughts, be taught in school? What is society's role in that sort of education? Should organization of large public schools be changed? What about how workplaces are ordered? Because you train animals with reward, not shame. We do this thing where everyone who isn't a winner has to endure some sort of shame. It doesn't actually teach anybody anything to judge them for being weak. Maybe these things are telling us something, or maybe these things don't actually occur often enough for us to truly become alarmed enough to change anything. Or, maybe, like true gamblers, we are willing to take the risk because we feel that we are certainly going to win this next time and it is ok for us to accept the way that there are winners and losers.
I agree with everything you've said, and I have read and heard some similar things...namely about how we have an increasingly "sink or swim" society, and it leaves those who are sinking feeling desperate. I think social media has made everything worse, because the bullying is now 24 hours a day, and also because there are many online who are eager to push these guys over the edge by justifying their rage and making them feel it is not only normal to seek revenge, but understandable and even desirable. Many of the mass shooters are practically hailed as heroes on some of these sites.
But so many don't seem to understand it's a suicide most of the time. They post things like "If the death penalty were automatic for these shooters, they'd think twice!" which always baffles me because they almost always do this with full intention of dying at the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Am I a Prophet View Post
If you look at self-esteem as an issue, you will discover that the portion of the population which has the highest level of self-esteem lives in the nation's prisons. That means that those who think more of themselves are most likely to commit acts toward others which might put them in prison.>>
What?>
He's talking about people thinking they are above the law, can do what they want, can take what they want because they deserve it.
I don't think that's accurate. I would bet more people in jail have awful self-esteem than good self-esteem. I think you're confusing bravado and machismo with self-esteem, it's actually usually a reaction to poor self-esteem.
I don't think that's accurate. I would bet more people in jail have awful self-esteem than good self-esteem. I think you're confusing bravado and machismo with self-esteem, it's actually usually a reaction to poor self-esteem.
Actually, it's scientifically proven. There have been studies. I only mention it because I've been around long enough to have heard of them. What they reveal runs almost entirely counter to American surface logic. Americans think that being a 'somebody' is the answer to almost any problem. But so do most of the theories about where the mass shooting crisis is coming from. There are plenty of suggestions, but nobody goes there.
I get that the country worships guns. People love them. They would sooner renounce their faith than give up their guns. Even in the face of complete peace, they will make up plausible reasons to keep them. But that reflects the people's fascination with fear. The sort of fear referenced there is probably what the shooters are appealing to, if they are sending any message. That fear is a form of attempting to come off as self-sufficient, no matter the circumstances. Or, it is for those who stock their houses with many guns, so that they can always get to one. If they have kids, the very real prospect that they will find them and discharge them is not reason enough to keep their guns out of easy reach. If someone mentions relying upon the police to those people, they are met with scorn and derision. It's hardly communist to believe in society. I suppose they also meet all mentions of the 'gubmint' with the same sort of response.
And that's, sort of, my point. Society shouldn't accept school bullying any more than it should accept prison rape. In neither case, is anything much done about it. We don't want to restructure how we educate children. Almost the entire reason for the mass gathering of kids into schools, to make good industrial workers of them, is past tense. Still, we haven't engaged in a conversation about what should be next. It's probably not homeschooling, even though that has produced lots of spelling bee champions. It's also produced quite a few science deniers and children who couldn't wait to get away from their monumental parents. The answer probably does have something to do with embracing society. Maybe something about gathering children still, but changing the focus concerning why they are being gathered? Maybe being a more complete 'loser' ought to receive some kind of focus? Which is probably also why we won't go there.
Last edited by Am I a Prophet; 12-12-2019 at 04:18 PM..
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