Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A sex crime is just like any other physical assault. You have to prove it happened, you can’t just assert it. So no, no special treatment for sex crimes. Nobody gets to be automatically “believed”. Due process and presumption of innocence is correct. Many sex crimes can often be avoided by choosing rational behaviors. Don’t drink to excess, watch where you go, watch how you dress, watch how you comport yourself, make yourself able to physically defend yourself from assault, etc. Physical self-defense should be taught in grade school and maintained in middle and high school. Delete dodgeball or basketball, introduce karate and judo. Sex crimes would be unheard of if physical defense capabilities were prevalent in the citizenry.
Strangely, I find myself agreeing with Marc Paolella to a large extent. But this advise mostly pertains to women.
My advice to young men would be to be extremely careful when getting sexual with a woman. Make sure that there is always firm consent. Do not have sex with someone who is drunk or high, even if they seem interested. There is a big chance that you will be accused of rape or assault later. I would also be very hesitant of any one night stands after meeting in a bar...
Also just keep in mind that women really enjoy dressing provocatively and tormenting men with the outlines of their bodies. So if a woman looks like a sex worker, wearing see through yoga pants and tight, revealing top does not necessarily mean that she is. It does not mean that she wants to have sex with you. It just means that she likes to dress like a prostitute...
I had a friend recently, make a public post on Facebook (anyone could see, anyone could respond) asking how many people had ever been falsely accused of rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment, etc...could be you or someone you know, tell the story in the comments or simply say "Yes."
She got 9 responses to that post.
Then the next day, she posted a similar post asking how many had been raped, harassed, sexually assaulted etc. themselves. This time she did not ask "you or someone you know." She asked "respond if YOU have." In the first hour she had over a hundred responses. In the first day it went over 300.
Then she started getting death and rape threats by men she didn't know. She is screen-shotting those.
I found her little experiment interesting. Not surprising, but interesting.
I've been privy to untold numbers of sexual assault situations involving people around me, people close to me and people not close to me. I've had some experiences of my own. It is easy, when you are looking at a situation on the news, to simply align your opinion and your judgment with your own biases, whatever they are. Take a side, because it is YOUR side. It's harder when it involves people you know, especially if you are of the stance that one must always believe a victim, yet a friend of yours, that you feel confident about their good character, is the one being accused. That is difficult. What do you choose, your loyalty or your ethics, then?
I suppose it gets easy, if you are the sort who believes that victims usually are lying. You are then relieved of that dilemma. Your friend is innocent. Of course they are!
Personally I've found some comfort in being able to admit that I don't know. I was not there, I don't know. I listen to the victim and withhold all judgement. I would listen to the accused and withhold judgment also...because I do not KNOW. I think it's ludicrous egotism that we all think our own opinion and stance is so crucially important, we must claim to know things even if we don't. In other words, the main problem with presuming an accused perpetrator of sexual assault, innocent until proven guilty, is that it presumes the victim accuser to be guilty until proven innocent, of lying. I prefer to try and hold a neutral position, until I have more information, because I have no right to act like I know this that I don't, let alone to judge other people based on such. So until I can back my thoughts up with something, no one is guilty, and no one is innocent.
I had a friend recently, make a public post on Facebook (anyone could see, anyone could respond) asking how many people had ever been falsely accused of rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment, etc...could be you or someone you know, tell the story in the comments or simply say "Yes."
She got 9 responses to that post.
Then the next day, she posted a similar post asking how many had been raped, harassed, sexually assaulted etc. themselves. This time she did not ask "you or someone you know." She asked "respond if YOU have." In the first hour she had over a hundred responses. In the first day it went over 300.
Then she started getting death and rape threats by men she didn't know. She is screen-shotting those.
I found her little experiment interesting. Not surprising, but interesting.
I've been privy to untold numbers of sexual assault situations involving people around me, people close to me and people not close to me. I've had some experiences of my own. It is easy, when you are looking at a situation on the news, to simply align your opinion and your judgment with your own biases, whatever they are. Take a side, because it is YOUR side. It's harder when it involves people you know, especially if you are of the stance that one must always believe a victim, yet a friend of yours, that you feel confident about their good character, is the one being accused. That is difficult. What do you choose, your loyalty or your ethics, then?
I suppose it gets easy, if you are the sort who believes that victims usually are lying. You are then relieved of that dilemma. Your friend is innocent. Of course they are!
Personally I've found some comfort in being able to admit that I don't know. I was not there, I don't know. I listen to the victim and withhold all judgement. I would listen to the accused and withhold judgment also...because I do not KNOW. I think it's ludicrous egotism that we all think our own opinion and stance is so crucially important, we must claim to know things even if we don't. In other words, the main problem with presuming an accused perpetrator of sexual assault, innocent until proven guilty, is that it presumes the victim accuser to be guilty until proven innocent, of lying. I prefer to try and hold a neutral position, until I have more information, because I have no right to act like I know this that I don't, let alone to judge other people based on such. So until I can back my thoughts up with something, no one is guilty, and no one is innocent.
My wife was abused when she was a teen
my last girlfriend was date raped in college
girl I dated before her was abused by step father (full on sex)
girl before that was raped by cousin repeatedly when teens
both highschool girlfriends were abused by their father (were sisters)
I bet 8 out of 10 have experienced real sexual abuse...not just harassment, but abuse
it is horrible and I cant imagine what the future holds for my daughter...
however...nothing will make me want to step around due process...period
most times an ulterior motive becomes apparent quickly...political (hello???)
My wife was abused when she was a teen
my last girlfriend was date raped in college
girl I dated before her was abused by step father (full on sex)
girl before that was raped by cousin repeatedly when teens
both highschool girlfriends were abused by their father (were sisters)
I bet 8 out of 10 have experienced real sexual abuse...not just harassment, but abuse
it is horrible and I cant imagine what the future holds for my daughter...
however...nothing will make me want to step around due process...period
most times an ulterior motive becomes apparent quickly...political (hello???)
I agree with you that the issue of sexual assault, abuse, and outright rape is still likely more widespread than many want to believe. Unfortunately what we saw with the recent confirmation hearing and the allegations that surfaced with it was a narrative that if you simply didn't take the accuser at her word you're condoning the alleged actions of the accused. That's tragic because it is impossible to have an adult conversation when people insist on dismissing due process for political expediency. What's worse is that undermines legitimate reports and accusers too. Due process works. If we make an exception for sex crimes I believe it's a matter of time before we make other exceptions too and before we know it due process will be a footnote in the history books.
I agree with you that the issue of sexual assault, abuse, and outright rape is still likely more widespread than many want to believe. Unfortunately what we saw with the recent confirmation hearing and the allegations that surfaced with it was a narrative that if you simply didn't take the accuser at her word you're condoning the alleged actions of the accused. That's tragic because it is impossible to have an adult conversation when people insist on dismissing due process for political expediency. What's worse is that undermines legitimate reports and accusers too. Due process works. If we make an exception for sex crimes I believe it's a matter of time before we make other exceptions too and before we know it due process will be a footnote in the history books.
great post
totally agreed...its scary that so many peeps are willing to let this happen
I had a friend recently, make a public post on Facebook (anyone could see, anyone could respond) asking how many people had ever been falsely accused of rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment, etc...could be you or someone you know, tell the story in the comments or simply say "Yes."
She got 9 responses to that post.
Then the next day, she posted a similar post asking how many had been raped, harassed, sexually assaulted etc. themselves. This time she did not ask "you or someone you know." She asked "respond if YOU have." In the first hour she had over a hundred responses. In the first day it went over 300.
Then she started getting death and rape threats by men she didn't know. She is screen-shotting those.
I found her little experiment interesting. Not surprising, but interesting.
Her little experiment on FB has no statistical significance. No one know who is responding on FB and what their are motives are.
I also don't understand why you found experiment interesting. I don't think anyone is claiming that most or all of the rape/sexual assault accusations are false. I think if anything, the experiment shows that there are always false allegations and the accuser's words can not be considered Gospel until there is proof with solid evidence...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
Personally I've found some comfort in being able to admit that I don't know. I was not there, I don't know. I listen to the victim and withhold all judgement. I would listen to the accused and withhold judgment also...because I do not KNOW. I think it's ludicrous egotism that we all think our own opinion and stance is so crucially important, we must claim to know things even if we don't. In other words, the main problem with presuming an accused perpetrator of sexual assault, innocent until proven guilty, is that it presumes the victim accuser to be guilty until proven innocent, of lying. I prefer to try and hold a neutral position, until I have more information, because I have no right to act like I know this that I don't, let alone to judge other people based on such. So until I can back my thoughts up with something, no one is guilty, and no one is innocent.
I don't know why you would say this. Sexual crimes should be like any other crimes. The accuser or her/his legal team need to present a compelling evidence to prove that the accused are guilty in the court of law. If they are not able to provide that, then the accused is innocent. It is not necessarily true that the accuser is lying. He or she might just have insufficient evidence to prove the guilt of the accused.
I agree with you that the issue of sexual assault, abuse, and outright rape is still likely more widespread than many want to believe. Unfortunately what we saw with the recent confirmation hearing and the allegations that surfaced with it was a narrative that if you simply didn't take the accuser at her word you're condoning the alleged actions of the accused. That's tragic because it is impossible to have an adult conversation when people insist on dismissing due process for political expediency. What's worse is that undermines legitimate reports and accusers too. Due process works. If we make an exception for sex crimes I believe it's a matter of time before we make other exceptions too and before we know it due process will be a footnote in the history books.
Great post, I agree 100%. And I agree that if we suspend presumption of innocence for ex crimes, it will set a dangerous precedent. Kind of like this:
"
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
"
or even better:
"Wherever books are burned, men in the end will also burn."
One word, and that word is N O! Everyone is innocent till proven guilty by the state and courts. If you're wanting to go this route for sexual assaults, why not extend this idea even further
One word, and that word is N O! Everyone is innocent till proven guilty by the state and courts. If you're wanting to go this route for sexual assaults, why not extend this idea even further
Obviously that is the ultimate goal, its not that they are so concerned with sex crimes, its just a stepping stone towards something much larger.
They have to 'condition' people to accept it with sex crimes, before they can move on to conditioning them to accept it for other crimes and so on and so on...
Mightyqueen, I guarantee you if there was a nationwide mandatory and physically enforced DNA/paternity test of all children and their fathers, there would be a lot of devastated men.
It always amuses me how up in arms mothers get when a hospital accidentally gives them the wrong child to take home, but when a father discovers his wife/girlfriend has cheated on him AND given birth to the other man's child, he is just supposed to "get over it" and "biological ties don't mean anything..."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Seriously, dude?