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Old 09-25-2018, 12:23 PM
 
Location: A blue island in the Piedmont
34,152 posts, read 83,198,060 times
Reputation: 43724

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
What nobody ever mentions is that automation allows manufacturing to stay in the US...
Correct.

The critical point being the static from the DELUDED who think that a 1960's era 500 person factory
a) could be regenerated somehow or b) would need anywhere near that number of people today...
let alone that it could employ any of the the no/low skill sort that were there when it was closed.

That ship sailed long ago.
Our problem TODAY is having more people than we need any way you want to cut it.
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Old 09-26-2018, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Elysium
12,423 posts, read 8,212,014 times
Reputation: 9209
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ312 View Post
Not going to happen. A salaried employee these days is lucky to work a 40 hour week. Lots of salaries employees are working 45, 50, or 60+ hours a week.
However due to the American society's acceptance of the concept of working a third of the day for 5 days a week, our 40 hour base. 8 hours work, 8 hours sleep and 8 hours your own. Unfortunately work related activities like travel to work cuts into the personnel and sleep thirds of the day.

Those working more hours get premium pay for overtime. Government normally allows a labor union contract to take precedence but will step in and force the issue at work places where the labor force is not organized in a union.

Cutting the base from 40 hours would have the government forcing overtime premium pay rates after, let's say 6 hours, to include a average commute to work instead of after a third of the day.
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Old 09-26-2018, 05:36 AM
 
Location: A blue island in the Piedmont
34,152 posts, read 83,198,060 times
Reputation: 43724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
Those working more hours get premium pay for overtime.
Well, some do. But many who should don't.
Care to venture an opinion on why those employees accept this inequity?
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Old 09-26-2018, 05:54 AM
 
24,573 posts, read 18,372,150 times
Reputation: 40276
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Correct.

The critical point being the static from the DELUDED who think that a 1960's era 500 person factory
a) could be regenerated somehow or b) would need anywhere near that number of people today...
let alone that it could employ any of the the no/low skill sort that were there when it was closed.

That ship sailed long ago.
Our problem TODAY is having more people than we need any way you want to cut it.

Our problem TODAY is we have more unskilled people than we need. We have a shortage of skilled people. That generally requires capability for critical thought, education, and work ethic. Automation and global competition are only going to increase the gap between the 'haves' with the 21st century job skills and the 'have nots' who do not have those skills. Basic supply & demand.
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Old 09-26-2018, 06:02 AM
 
Location: A blue island in the Piedmont
34,152 posts, read 83,198,060 times
Reputation: 43724
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Our problem TODAY is we have more unskilled people than we need.
No argument here. But we have too many skilled people as well.
Especially so if we could somehow reduce our population numbers.
eg: With 50Million fewer people in total... how many fewer Dentists would we need?

Quote:
We have a shortage of skilled people.
I don't believe that to be true... and see no real evidence of it.
Perhaps some imbalance in the career choice/preferences made... but not the number.
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Old 09-26-2018, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
51,040 posts, read 24,537,935 times
Reputation: 33052
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
No argument here. But we have too many skilled people as well.
Especially so if we could somehow reduce our population numbers.
eg: With 50Million fewer people in total... how many fewer Dentists would we need?

I don't believe that to be true... and see no real evidence of it.
Perhaps some imbalance in the career choice/preferences made... but not the number.
This is all fine except for one thing:

We aren't going to reduce our population numbers.

Period.
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Old 09-26-2018, 10:14 AM
 
Location: A blue island in the Piedmont
34,152 posts, read 83,198,060 times
Reputation: 43724
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
We aren't going to reduce our population numbers.
I disagree. Period. The variable is in how the reduction might be achieved.


I prefer the peaceful, orderly, elective approaches.
But if too many reject those... you can be sure the other means WILL come into play.
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Old 09-27-2018, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
7,102 posts, read 6,009,234 times
Reputation: 5712
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
No. Just like any other American, they have the right and ability to choose a profession/job based on what they think is a reasonable set of expectations versus benefits.

Real estate agents make a ridiculous amount of money for the hours they spent on any one client's house to begin with.
Most self-employed folks I know, including Realtors, work well over the 40 hour work week, we so because we choose that lifestyle. I would not be happy in a 9-5 job with a boss.
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Old 09-28-2018, 05:35 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,023 posts, read 2,282,420 times
Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Going back to my industry days, if hours are cut by 1/4 while compensation remains the same then employee productivity will have to rise by 25% for the company to stay even. There is no free lunch.

Going back to when I was in industry, whenever we would get a raise two things were guaranteed to happen within a couple weeks. Layoff notices would go out (and yes, they were written on pink paper) and the machines making the bottles (or earlier the plastic caps) would speed up.

Studies have actually shown that working more hours does not necessarily increase productivity which makes sense because the more you work the more stress,fatigue and other things effect your work. In many jobs there are down times for workers where they are doing either nothing or busy work that does not really need to be done. Also if people did not have to work as many hours that would open up those hours for others.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonat..._14509568.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/26/work...roductive.html
https://hbr.org/2015/08/the-research...-for-companies
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-...or-you-2013-11
https://nypost.com/2017/02/03/why-we...our-work-week/
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Old 10-03-2018, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Rural Michigan
6,341 posts, read 14,723,970 times
Reputation: 10550
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Well, some do. But many who should don't.
Care to venture an opinion on why those employees accept this inequity?
They don't have a choice. We don't actually have a "free" market for labor.

One of the most free-market reforms in the history of the U.S. was derided by the party of "no" as "socialism".

If we separated health insurance from employment (and allowed anyone to buy insurance at the same price major employers get), small businesses would thrive & people stuck working for mega-corps and government mostly for the insurance would be free to innovate & start new businesses at a phenomenal rate. If I could buy insurance myself at the same price my major employer paid, I could easily command much higher wages for part time work.

It's the exact opposite of a handout or welfare. But it wasn't categorized that way by the press, who are firmly owned by the richest in America.
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