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Old 02-19-2019, 12:57 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
7,448 posts, read 7,603,169 times
Reputation: 16456

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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlymike View Post
Sounds great right but in reality if I am being robbed by a guy with a gun I want a cop to show who has a gun.

There's never a cop around when you need one. My solution is to carry my own firearm. But that's my last resort. Situational awareness is the best way to avoid becoming a victim.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:43 AM
 
28,690 posts, read 18,837,616 times
Reputation: 31003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee 2A View Post
I don't know. All I know is "my cousin is a cop" to "place your hands behind your back" is a rather large leap, especially if unprovoked. That's the reason why I'm asking in the first place.
That's the point: It was unprovoked (at least by the standard of a reasonable person). The cop said "cop" was "drug talk."
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Florida
2,309 posts, read 904,217 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
That's the point: It was unprovoked (at least by the standard of a reasonable person). The cop said "cop" was "drug talk."
An officer going from 0 to 100 like that doesn't sound realistic based on my experience with law enforcement.
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Old 02-20-2019, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,898,255 times
Reputation: 39453
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjusterjack View Post
What if there were more police officers carrying only non-lethal weapons?

More police officers would die.


Criminals don't carry non-lethal weapons.
And fewer people would become police officers. Especially since we now send them out to patrol alone. (Budget cuts and all).
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Old 02-20-2019, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,898,255 times
Reputation: 39453
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Police have too much authority to begin with, plus I do not think the job of a police officer should be a 'career long type job', studies have been done with people occupying positions of authority, even for short amounts of time, and it always leads to abuse of that authority.


Id would like to see cities put police officer positions on the ballot, have qualified citizens run for these positions, and they would have term limits of 2-4 years and then someone else would have to take over, or they could even made it mandatory for all 21-35 yr olds, they all must serve at least one term as a police officer for the city they live in, but under no circumstances could anyone ever hold the position longer than 2-4 years.


We desperately NEED to change something, and do it quickly, its pretty obvious its not working or effective the way it has been...time to try something new.
Here is the problem. We have too few applicants for the police forces. It is a terrible job with terrible pay and you risk your life. Two kinds of people seem to apply for the job. those who want to serve and protect others even to the extent of laying down their life, and those on a power trip. Because there are so few applicants, they have to take pretty much everyone who can pass the tests and who meet the requirements. We then rush then through limited training and get them out on the streets as soon as possible. they learn the job on the streets and through trial in action. It takes about five years for them to really learn the job and become fully competent.

Now limit the time of the job make it a temporary position instead of a career. Everyone will be new and not fully experienced. no experienced cops around to train the newbies. Fewer people wanting to be a policeman and more vacancies. If policemen are elected rather than chosen based on their qualifications and temperament, we will have even worse candidates. Public elections are a popularity contest no an examination of qualifications and temperament.

The job of policeman is incredibly complex. they have to know all kinds of different laws and how to enforce them. They need to understand the rules of evidence and all of the law interpreting several constitutional amendments - a task the most lawyers cannot do. They also need to know emergency medical treatment, psychology, negotiation, driving skills, how to use a gun or other weapon when necessary and when and how not to use it. they need to understand different subcultures, race relations and tension, family law and family counseling, safety issues, distinctions between civil and criminal laws, but they still need to know what the civil laws are in some cases. They need to learn investigative skills, payroll/observation skills. They need to learn when and how they are to use common sense in enforcement of laws. When you give a warning vs a ticket or arrest. How to function when you are exhausted form too much overtime. How to control your temper when people are unreasonable, nasty, aggressive, etc. They need to train to work as a team and to work alone. They need to learn to shoot accurately, and how to physically restrain someone without killing them (ie wrestling). They need to know how to get a cat out of a tree, when they are allowed or required to take a child out of an abusive situation and when they are not allowed to do so. they need to learn about the dangers of contact with blood and vomit, how to fully clean and sanitize their car after such things occur. They need to learn how to put a struggling person into a car without hurting them.

It is endless. the last thing I want is a bunch of inexperienced cops with no experienced people to learn from.


What i would like to see is an effort to make the job more appealing so we get better candidates and more choices. Also How to keep good officers on the police force rather than taking a more lucrative position in the private sector. Reduce the BS that makes them quit, Increase the respect they deserve. train them better so they are not out there scared to death and stop sending them out alone.
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:35 AM
 
28,690 posts, read 18,837,616 times
Reputation: 31003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee 2A View Post
An officer going from 0 to 100 like that doesn't sound realistic based on my experience with law enforcement.
I would argue that he was at 50 when he got out of his car.

And that's the problem.
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Old 02-20-2019, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
7,448 posts, read 7,603,169 times
Reputation: 16456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Here is the problem. We have too few applicants for the police forces. It is a terrible job with terrible pay and you risk your life.

Recently I saw a list of government employee salaries for Alaska and its cities. In Anchorage, the highest paid municipal employee was a senior patrol officer with the Anchorage Police Department. His pay last year was slightly over $450,000. I could actually live pretty decently on that much money.
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Old 02-20-2019, 10:21 PM
 
8,583 posts, read 16,025,337 times
Reputation: 11355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I would argue that he was at 50 when he got out of his car.

And that's the problem.
If 50 is a state of alertness so that they are ready for anything that may happen, then that will save their lives in many situations.
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:17 AM
 
28,690 posts, read 18,837,616 times
Reputation: 31003
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly237 View Post
If 50 is a state of alertness so that they are ready for anything that may happen, then that will save their lives in many situations.
Well, I was responding to a post that used a numerical value.

But to use a a better system, Jeff Cooper's color-coded situational awareness system. In that system, "general alertness to the possibility of danger" is Condition Yellow. Condition Orange means a specific possible danger has been identified and attention is directed. Condition Red means responding physically to a specific danger.

"Cuffing and stuffing" is a Condition Red action. The police officer was triggered by my using the word "cop." He explicitly said so. I would argue that the use of the word "cop" by someone they had already checked out and was never a suspect anyway should not send a police officer into Condition Red.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:00 AM
 
8,583 posts, read 16,025,337 times
Reputation: 11355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Well, I was responding to a post that used a numerical value.

But to use a a better system, Jeff Cooper's color-coded situational awareness system. In that system, "general alertness to the possibility of danger" is Condition Yellow. Condition Orange means a specific possible danger has been identified and attention is directed. Condition Red means responding physically to a specific danger.

"Cuffing and stuffing" is a Condition Red action. The police officer was triggered by my using the word "cop." He explicitly said so. I would argue that the use of the word "cop" by someone they had already checked out and was never a suspect anyway should not send a police officer into Condition Red.
It is obvious that you have a mistrust overall of the police. Perhaps this situation was one where they over
reacted, they aren't perfect. Or maybe this isn't the whole story. Who knows.
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