Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-19-2019, 12:36 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,752,932 times
Reputation: 9728

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
I disagree! Ever heard it? Passive Aggressive behavior brings out the anger and violence in others. Release them because they were non-violent? More thought needs to be put into this. Bernie Madoff stole millions from his clients, and, as a result of it, did any of them commit suicide, and if so, where's the murder charge. And no, he wasn't violent!

It's no secret that jail/prison sentences are 2-3X higher in the U.S. than Europe, and is Europe any more dangerous as a result of it?

And the smartest criminals will never be caught, you'll never see them in a court room, never read about them in a True Crime book. If only 65% of murders are solved, nationwide, what does that tell you?

And as far as murder, it's something I never stop thinking about: When there's a murder there's generally 2 sets of fingerprints on the murder weapon. This would apply more to husband/wife killings.

I don't think the criminal justice system is too lax at all.

As much as I hate parasites ripping off others, I don't think it makes sense to lock them away. The system should find ways to force them to use their - oftentimes considerable - intelligence for the good of society.

When someone commits suicide, it is a very extreme reaction. I don't think one can say that the thief or whatever murdered that person. Else we are not far from the good old 'the woman wearing a mini skirt asked for her rape' logic.

I think we should find alternative sentences for white-collar criminals and use the prison cells for people committing violent crimes. Here in Portugal many wife beaters and child abusers don't go to jail because the jails are full, partly occupied by white-collar criminals. That is all wrong in my view.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-19-2019, 01:12 PM
 
Location: TN/NC
35,081 posts, read 31,322,562 times
Reputation: 47561
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
America has the highest incarceration rate in the world yet our crime rate is still very high. So all this incarceration is not having the intended effect. I don't think it is because our prisons are too soft, but rather social-economic factors, drugs in particular, that are the reason for this.

I have no idea what the solution is but I really doubt that more prisons is the answer since we have tried that for 30 years with no great success. We need to try something else. But not legalize drugs either, that would just create millions of zombies which we don't need either.
The problem is cultural in so many cases.

I'm from Appalachia. Drugs are a huge problem here, as well as property crime and domestic problems related to drugs. With that said, there's very little violent crime. If the drugs were legal and addiction treated from a public health vs. law enforcement perspective, the crime rate around here would plummet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2019, 02:23 PM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
5,511 posts, read 4,478,553 times
Reputation: 5770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
As much as I hate parasites ripping off others, I don't think it makes sense to lock them away. The system should find ways to force them to use their - oftentimes considerable - intelligence for the good of society.

When someone commits suicide, it is a very extreme reaction. I don't think one can say that the thief or whatever murdered that person. Else we are not far from the good old 'the woman wearing a mini skirt asked for her rape' logic.

I think we should find alternative sentences for white-collar criminals and use the prison cells for people committing violent crimes. Here in Portugal many wife beaters and child abusers don't go to jail because the jails are full, partly occupied by white-collar criminals. That is all wrong in my view.
Some of the white collar crimes aren't that bad, but the ones where millions and billions of dollars were stolen.. those should have harsh penalties. Robbing a back with a gun will automatically get the attention of FBI. Somebody doing the robbing "discretely" and through alternative means, and swiping far more money, should follow suit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2019, 02:55 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,752,932 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by ackmondual View Post
Some of the white collar crimes aren't that bad, but the ones where millions and billions of dollars were stolen.. those should have harsh penalties. Robbing a back with a gun will automatically get the attention of FBI. Somebody doing the robbing "discretely" and through alternative means, and swiping far more money, should follow suit.
Well, the gun makes it a violent crime.

But we had a huge banking scandal a few years ago, where suits robbed billions. There was no violence involved at all, it was all about corruption, bribes, money laundering etc. I don't think one should waste prison cells and taxpayer money on putting them in jail. Instead all their possessions should be taken away and given to the victims, and they should be forced to work in social institutions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2019, 04:46 PM
 
3,260 posts, read 3,773,896 times
Reputation: 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
I have no idea what the solution is but I really doubt that more prisons is the answer since we have tried that for 30 years with no great success. We need to try something else. But not legalize drugs either, that would just create millions of zombies which we don't need either.

Why don't you take a look at violent crime numbers over the last 30-50 years and tell me again how putting away violent criminals for long sentences hasn't made our society drastically safer.

Not as safe as if we were executing murderers instead of letting them out after 10-20 years, but safer nonetheless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2019, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
1,483 posts, read 1,379,456 times
Reputation: 1532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I wouldn't say it's lax, but wildly inconsistent.

A 28 year old teacher, Brittany Zamora, recently got a twenty year sentence for having sex with a student. A local man where I'm from got a thirty day sentence for a fatal DUI.
A remember a case where a man was killed by underage drunk driver. The person who provided the alcohol got a longer sentence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2019, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,892 posts, read 2,534,821 times
Reputation: 5387
People saying the American justice system is too lax being repeated by many people in many countries? Really? Where have you heard that? As for Americans complaining that system is too lax, that might be because they don't have anything to compare it too. Maybe people are looking at all the repeat offenders. Or picking only certain cases where the offender receives a light sentence, but not looking at another case where someone receives life for selling a small piece of crack. Do we really know how sentences in the US compare with other countries for similar crimes? I do believe the American system is lax for certain crimes and circumstances, but just the opposite in certain situations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2019, 10:11 PM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,608,522 times
Reputation: 15341
Quote:
Originally Posted by ackmondual View Post
Some of the white collar crimes aren't that bad, but the ones where millions and billions of dollars were stolen.. those should have harsh penalties. Robbing a back with a gun will automatically get the attention of FBI. Somebody doing the robbing "discretely" and through alternative means, and swiping far more money, should follow suit.
Exactly, a peasant robs a bank and they have the FBI on their tail...but when its the banks doing the robbing, they get away with it scott free!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2019, 10:14 PM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,608,522 times
Reputation: 15341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Well, the gun makes it a violent crime.

But we had a huge banking scandal a few years ago, where suits robbed billions. There was no violence involved at all, it was all about corruption, bribes, money laundering etc. I don't think one should waste prison cells and taxpayer money on putting them in jail. Instead all their possessions should be taken away and given to the victims, and they should be forced to work in social institutions.
Yes, we also need to get rid of the 'upper class' prisons (if they can be called prisons!).


Its funny how they use generic sounding names for these places, so the neighborhoods they are in, no one knows what they really are!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2019, 10:44 PM
 
146 posts, read 74,180 times
Reputation: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I am not American, but to me a killer has no more right to live. That person has crossed a line from which there is no way back. He or she will remain a pariah forever. It is irresponsible to release someone like that into society ever again. Like one of those mad dogs that rip apart children. They can never be trusted again. There is no cure for such brains. They should be put to sleep to protect society. I am a progressive, mind you, not conservative at all.

What I find really disturbing is how the legal system works these days:
For instance there is a case here where a daughter and her husband have brutally murdered her mother in order to inherit her stuff. The evidence is overwhelming, yet I heard the couple's lawyer argue on TV today that it is all invalid bla bla bla.
In other cases lawyers systematically try to set criminals free based on procedural errors.

In my view lawyers should only try to prevent someone from being falsely convicted, but as soon as lawyers themselves realize their clients are indeed guilty, they should no longer even try to set those criminals free, but merely make sure the penalty is not excessive relative to the crime.
We live in a very sick society, if any of what you are saying were up to me I'd be right on board with your thoughts. People who are opposed to the death penalty for murderers make me ill. I think there should be a vote every year - those against it should be required to foot the bill for their upkeep, and those for it don't get hit with the tax bill to house, feed and give medical care to such scum. I'd like to see what their opinion woud be when money is at stake.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top