Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Having studied the history of Covid, first discovered in 1965; I am an avid believer in herd immunity.
As we are truly herd animals, in this respect we will be better prepared for Covid-20; coming soon to a theater near you.
For years I complained at the fitness center about the lack of sanitation, which fell on deaf ears. Members using the urinals, and not even washing their hands.
Only right before they closed did members and staff begin paying attention to hygiene issues.
And now I'm selfish for practicing something I and my doctor truly believe in?.
If you expect this pandemic to be the tie that binds us in a country without a culture; think again.
This is an election year, and those with the very common sense/critical thinking skills the government wants to eliminate; do not trust the very politicians ordering citizens to wear a mask.
Are you saying that not washing your hands after using a urinal can spread Covid-19?
I do not trust the politicians in the government that are pushing a rushed national reopening against the advice of scientists and medical experts.
This has merit, as Covid virus' have been studied more than most over the years.
They are easier to work with than most cold and flu strains.
Plus opening up will simply destroy the environment again for the sake of entertainment/luxury items we can live without. At least I can.
Hmm, I wonder how many others would be as unselfish.
Sorry, still a bit annoyed at having been called the opposite in this thread.
Plus opening up will simply destroy the environment again for the sake of entertainment/luxury items we can live without. At least I can.
Hmm, I wonder how many others would be as unselfish.
Sorry, still a bit annoyed at having been called the opposite in this thread.
This simply means you have no skin in the game, or think you haven't. The livelihoods of thousands whose careers are in "entertainment and luxury items" --that covers a LOT of area-- apparently doesn't matter to you. You'll be just fine without them. And that makes you unselfish how, exactly?
For years I complained at the fitness center about the lack of sanitation, which fell on deaf ears.
Members using the urinals, and not even washing their hands.
Only right before they closed did members and staff begin paying attention to hygiene issues.
Commenting just on this aspect.
One of the things I'm dreading (right word?) about the re-opening of the economy/society is that places like fitness centers, airlines, some restaurants, hotels, etc. will now suddenly try to suggest they've always been concerned with our safety and health.
One thing I've always laughed at is when I'm waiting for a plane and the aircraft is just arriving from another city and the gate agent says they "need time to clean the plane." Hhahahahaha yeah right. 250 people deplane and you clean it in 10-15 minutes? This will just be an excuse for airlines to do less and charge more, like for a mask.
My current gym is very clean, but yeah...gyms...I've seen things in other gyms that make me question humanity, and gym management could not care less. Now they'll claim they've always "had our back" so we need to wear masks to hold up our end of the deal.
This simply means you have no skin in the game, or think you haven't. The livelihoods of thousands whose careers are in "entertainment and luxury items" --that covers a LOT of area-- apparently doesn't matter to you. You'll be just fine without them. And that makes you unselfish how, exactly?
They'll find new jobs, probably flying drones for Amazon soon; so we can pull trucks off roads.
I like baseball, tanning salons, restaurants, and Bath and Body Works.
But if closing these venues is being done in the interest of not wasting power by burning coal, I'm willing to give them up.
Are you?, and consider this stat:
WHO estimates 4 million die annually from pollution related illness, mainly in the form of cancers.
One thing I've always laughed at is when I'm waiting for a plane and the aircraft is just arriving from another city and the gate agent says they "need time to clean the plane." Hhahahahaha yeah right. 250 people deplane and you clean it in 10-15 minutes? This will just be an excuse for airlines to do less and charge more, like for a mask.
PS, I'm fine wearing a mask for a while.
I always assumed they meant "clean up" the plane, meaning pick up any leftover trash and newspapers. That is about all that you can do in that time frame.
I think there is something to be said that the health care experts are taking the safest approach, it's what they do. Just like we don't brush after every meal as our dentist recommends and don't eat the perfect diet that our primary care physician also suggested I think there is a school of thought they they are being overly cautious and we don't have to follow their every word.
With that said I am getting very tired of the "infringe on my rights" crowd. Every law out there is an infringement. Does that mean we should all be free to drive 100 MPH and not wear seat belts while throwing down a 12 pack?
Initially people pushed back HARD on seat belts. I remember the criticism: they were uncomfortable, they will trap you in a car on fire etc. Well we adjusted then and we can adjust now. Stop being so selfish, if nothing else show some consideration for the store workers who DO feel they are important.
[quote=sll3454;58139295[COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]]I'd like to answer, but I will admit I have not read the many pages of responses. Anyway, . . .
1. Some people cannot breathe well enough through masks. That group includes me. Therefore I do not wear a mask. However, I also do not make a big stink. (Yet.)[/color] [\QUOTE]
We obviously have a lot of work to do to train people who have never had to wear a mask. I have mentioned that just breathing deeply will solve most problems, but not all. The paper or cloth masks are a cheap solution designed for temporary use. Their effectiveness depends on design.
If you go up the price scale a bit, you can get much more comfortable and secure solutions. The 3M Rugged Comfort masks have a silicone face shield that doesn't have to be so tight, and a valve and filter system that removes most air restrictions. The exhale valve directs your breath downwards, and there is a thin paper filter over the exhalation valve that will catch particulates as well as the typical cloth mask. Filters are replaceable so you only have to buy one mask and a box of filters, which are available in n95, n99, and HEPA.
Respirators are normally fitted by an expert, but can be fitted by the user with some trial and error. A properly fitted respirator offers good protection to the wearer, depending on the skill of the wearer. It has the design advantage that you can wipe it down with alcohol before removing it. There is no help for someone who has to scratch their nose or rub their eyes. Critical training can be very unpleasant. It usually consists of coating your fingers with something that makes touching your face very uncomfortable. Seed a couple of Carolina Reapers without gloves, and you will receive swift punishment for touching your face.
[quote=sll3454;58139295] 2. Normalizing mask-wearing will be detrimental to our immune systems long-term - especially having children wear them. We need exposure to the bad stuff so that our immune systems can grow strong.[\QUOTE]
I think it's grow more sophisticated rather than stronger, but you have a good point. Vaccines only strengthen the immune system for a limited range of pathogens. Children need to eat dirt and manure to learn which pathogens will make them sick and which can be ignored. If they don't get that when young, their immune system goes whacko when they are older, responding to every bit of pollen that floats by. We're still learning how to deal with that. Their immune systems are not weak, they are just confused.
[quote=sll3454;58139295] 3. People see that they are being told to wear masks at a time when the virus is on the downside. People in areas where there have been few cases, and sometimes no deaths, are being advised to wear masks. This is ridiculous. So, whether or not wearing the mask is torture, to be told to wear one when there is no reason is objectionable.[\QUOTE]
That's misinformation. All it takes is one infected person to start an outbreak. Patient zero was once the only person in the world with the disease, and he or she managed to infect millions of people. If that infected person is wearing a mask, it could protect whole cities. That's a pretty good reason.
[quote=sll3454;58139295] 4. People object to mask-wearing because having everyone go around in masks adds to an atmosphere of fear.[\QUOTE]
Having people running around bare faced is even scarier to people who understand what is happening. We're coming up on 100,000 deaths by the end of the month, and are right on schedule for a million deaths over the next couple of years. People ignoring contagion control are pushing the numbers bigger and faster.
[quote=sll3454;58139295] 5. Some people are still under the impression that masks are to protect the wearer. They know that the mask will not protect the wearer, but for some reason they have not yet heard that the mask is to protect other people. [\QUOTE]
About 20% of the population doesn't even know who the president is. About a third of the population is too illiterate to decipher a bus schedule. Expecting people to understand why they need to wear a mask is a pretty high bar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sll3454
6. People do not like being lied to. The CDC was saying "Don't wear masks, don't wear masks, don't wear masks." The real reason may have been to make sure enough masks were available for medical personnel, but that was not given as the only reason. We were told that there was no reason to be wearing cloth masks, either. The message was very clear: No masks. Then, all of a sudden, one day it changed from "No masks" to "Masks." So either Fauci and the CDC were lying before, or they're lying now, or they doesn't know what they're talking about. Any of those means loss of credibility.
Yes, the CDC was lying to the public. Yes, the CDC did a bureaucratic disaster by insisting on Made In America testing and allowed the epidemic to gain a foothold. Even today, they are still a month behind posting the infection and death numbers, which is why everyone is using Johns Hopkins numbers instead of CDC numbers. Thanks to budget cuts and ignorant political appointees, the CDC is no longer functional. Ignore them. This is not the CDC that stopped SARS dead in its tracks in 2003.
I was discussing the 1919 Anti Mask League with a friend of mine and he pointed out that in the early years of the AIDS epidemic it was the homosexual community that protested wearing condoms and closing the bath houses. The protesters who are outraged at their favorite bar being closed and think wearing a mask is an infringement of their rights are no different from the San Francisco homosexuals in the '80s and '90s.
EDIT: Sorry about the messed up quotes. I tried editing it twice, but the HTML keeps getting switched to lower case.
Last edited by Larry Caldwell; 05-18-2020 at 01:09 PM..
Reason: FORMATTING
Initially people pushed back HARD on seat belts. I remember the criticism: they were uncomfortable, they will trap you in a car on fire etc. Well we adjusted then and we can adjust now. Stop being so selfish, if nothing else show some consideration for the store workers who DO feel they are important.
People can adjust to just about anything. Look at North Korea, look at Nazi Germany. People tend to put up with whatever the government orders them to do.
One concern by civil libertarians like myself is these infringements seem to continue on. Like after 9/11. The patriot act, all the hoops you go through to get on a plane, etc. The war on terror like the war on drugs will never end. You have to be careful when you give up your rights. So tracking apps and registering to go into businesses. To me its a legit concern.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
