Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I can remember a day when the rebel flag was really about rebellion, and came to symbolize any kind of rebellion. Billy Idol, Tom Petty, and Lynard Skynard all used the rebel flag to that effect.
But now, it means something more hateful...and I can respect that, and live in the present, and know that many people find it distasteful.
Billy Idol spent the first 26 years of his life in the UK, so at least he had could claim some ignorance. The rest were from Floribama
To start, the US Constitution does not guarantee the right to assemble, but rather the right "peaceably to assemble."
Moreover, the US Constitution in that sense only places limits on what government can do in response to people peaceably assembling and to people speaking, etc. It has zero bearing on how private citizens/companies react, and does not limit the words of public officials either; they still have their First Amendment rights, too, despite being elected officials. But just like those who are against "x" or "y" flag or symbol can peaceably protest it without unreasonable government interference, others who are against such a position are protected from unreasonable government interference when they express their displeasure.
Seceding from the Union was a traitorous act. I hardly have any 'Northern pride' which drives me to say this; it's just a fact based on the definition of words.
Admirable if you're a revolutionary war soldier fighting against the Brits, not so much if you're a southerner fighting in the civil war? You don't find that a bit of a double standard?
What about civil wars going on in other countries, who's to say which side are the 'traitors'? Anyone fighting against the established government, no matter the cause?
I can remember a day when the rebel flag was really about rebellion, and came to symbolize any kind of rebellion. Billy Idol, Tom Petty, and Lynard Skynard all used the rebel flag to that effect.
But now, it means something more hateful...and I can respect that, and live in the present, and know that many people find it distasteful.
In fairness it has always stood for something hateful. It is just many (frankly white) people chose to overlook those racist aspects and imparted it with a whitewashed sense of regional heritage and don't tread on me style rebellion.
To their credit, the people cited above have realized the naivete/ignorance of their previous embrace of the flag.
We seem to be moving away from this odd tolerance of the Confederate flag. I would like to think more and more people are coming around to the view that it is so wrapped up with the defence of white supremacy, slavery and apartheid-style segregation that it can't be viewed merely as a symbol of regional pride or autonomy from federal government.
So I partially grew up in South Carolina. And I was in middle school or high early high school when the Malcom X movie came out.
There are a couple of memories of that time that stood out to me as the flag being a racist symbol. I grew up mostly in California, so it wasn't a thing at time in the area I grew up.
Incident 1:
After that movie came out some, mostly black people, wore the X imagery on hats or shirts. And sometimes they wore them to school. That movie spawned a lot of plain X merchandise that was popular. Our school has a lot of talk about wearing shirts with slogans (it was a conservative school). Eventually a bunch of stores (I lived in Myrtle Beach) started carrying shirts emblazoned with confederate flag that said "you wear your X and I'll wear mine."
Incident 2:
Every year the token black history month item was a bulletin board in the cafeteria with pictures of MLK, Harriet Tubman, and occasionally Malcom X and whatever other historical figures some decided to put on a poster. One year that bulletin board was defaced. Someone removed the images and replaced them with confederate flags, complaining that Malcom X was racist.
These were some of my first encounters with the flag, and it was abundantly clear for most of the fans it wasn't about "southern heritage" it was about hate and white supremacy.
There was a poll done recently which concluded that more Americans associate the Confederate flag with 'Southern pride' than with a defense of slavery or white supremacy.
'Nearly half of Americans consider displaying the Confederate flag as merely expressing Southern pride, compared to just over one third who consider it a symbol of racism, according to a poll.
A study of nearly 2000 registered voters, conducted by Morning Consult and Politico, revealed that 44 percent of people see the displaying the Confederate flag a symbol of Southern pride, with 36 percent seeing it as racist.
Twenty percent of registered voters taking part in the said "don't know" when asked their views on displaying the flag.'
It's funny, because I personally see it as a symbol of Southern pride AND racism. But given the statistical breakdown of the poll results, choosing 'a and b' was apparently not an option. If you dive a bit deeper into the demographic breakdown of the results, though, we may indeed be 'moving away' from tolerance of the stars and bars, as millennials are much more likely than Baby Boomers to see it as a 'symbol of Southern pride'. It's also worth noting that, as a lifelong Buffalonian, I've known and observed people over the years who flew the Confederate flag without ever having lived south of the Mason-Dixon. I wonder what their motives were?
When Morning Consult conducted the same poll back in 2015, 52 percent told the pollster it was about South heritage. So support does seem to be slowly declining, perhaps due to generational change as much as people re-evaluating their beliefs.
The other thing I think is important to point out is the racial breakdown. African Americans are far more likely to see it as a symbol of racism than white Americans. While I don't think any one group should have a veto over society, it is pretty telling that the group most directly impacted by racism is the group most opposed to the flag. https://morningconsult.com/2015/07/0...de-not-racism/
The US flag is ugly, like most flags. I assume the process of selecting a flag is as petty, corrupt, and messy as anything else in government. Respecting and pledging allegiance to a flag starts at silly and gets scary when the pledge is required. Proudly waving other flags is equally silly.
The interesting thing is that NASCAR made the decision to ban the Confederate flag last week, quite decisively and easily. They knew what it represented last year, 5 years ago, 20 years ago, but they did nothing about it.
How does kneeling disrespect the flag or the country, though? My family is Catholic, and when they go to Mass, they genuflect and kneel as a sign of respect. Kaepernick could have done a lot of things that were actually, aggressively disrespectful, but he consulted with a former Green Beret and landed on kneeling as a protest that *wasn't* disrespectful, just noticeable.
You also have to look at intent. And his verbal statements that followed made it clear he was not praises the country.
And kneeling is the opposite of what has been normal for over 100 years. Standing for the anthem has always been considered a way to honor and show respect.
So he was showing the opposite.
His time should have been spent at the boarder turning back illegals. Explaining to them how oppressed they would be here. Would have worked better for everyone.
And he tried to make it a white thing. There is a reason blacks dont want to live in a black country.
He should have been grateful for as much as we do have. No one can be simple minded enough to think there will be a 100% perfect place ever.He could have lived in a black country where they have much more inequality and oppression. And more people get killed by cops per capita.
Why did he not protest those countries? More inequality and more blacks killed. Seems a better place to start if you are not doing it for selfish reasons.
You could say it is either because he is a racist or knows he would not be personally enriched with money from it.
.
Have you actually read how many times slavery is mentioned as a key point in the articles of secession of the various states of the confederacy? It is the overriding issue that is mentioned by them.
The Union Blockade was an economic move to strangle the South which relied on agriculture (and also slaves) and wasn't some moral/ethical issue about slaves.
Again, slavery only got sprinkled in at the very end by Abraham Lincoln to tilt the balance in his favor.
The historical revisionism that "the North and South disagreed about slavery to the point of fighting in the Civil War", is about as naive and simplistic as childrens' construction paper cutouts of First Thanksgiving.
The Union Blockade was an economic move to strangle the South which relied on agriculture (and also slaves) and wasn't some moral/ethical issue about slaves.
Again, slavery only got sprinkled in at the very end by Abraham Lincoln to tilt the balance in his favor.
The historical revisionism that "the North and South disagreed about slavery to the point of fighting in the Civil War", is about as naive and simplistic as childrens' construction paper cutouts of First Thanksgiving.
Irrelevant to the issue of the confederate flag. When people raise their right hand and recite the words "I pledge allegience...", what are they doing? They are pledging allegiance to the US flag, right? Everything about the confederacy was against that flag. So much so, they crafted their own flag as a slap in the face to America. We only have one American flag.
Shouldn't true "patriots" reject all other flags?
Oh...someone above mentioned the right to assemble. No one on any sides of today's issues supports violence, looting, etc. Unfortunately, that stuff happens with mass protests. That's not excusing it. Just that it happens. Look at the yellow vest protests last year in France.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
is about as naive and simplistic as childrens' construction paper cutouts of First Thanksgiving.
