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It will also be a lot less costly for business. Companies have reserves to handle a short term shutdown. They start having trouble when the shutdown keeps going on for months with no end in sight.
We just went through a shutdown that put many companies at risk. Weeks and months in some cases.
You cannot make a blanket statement that companies have reserves. There are so many teetering now. We are weaker than we were in March.
A second shutdown for many would be a death blow. But we are inching towards more shutdowns.
We just went through a shutdown that put many companies at risk. Weeks and months in some cases.
You cannot make a blanket statement that companies have reserves. There are so many teetering now. We are weaker than we were in March.
A second shutdown for many would be a death blow. But we are inching towards more shutdowns.
I am not talking about a second shutdown, I am talking about how the first shutdown should look like. Now the damage has already been done, and there is not much than can be done to fix it.
In fact if the first shutdown was a short term very effective shutdown, people might even accept a second shutdown because they know there is an end date and it will provide immediate results.
Just because numbers are going up, doesn't mean that deaths are going up. Which is what many peoples minds automatically go to, the death count. You have to also remember that there's many inaccurate test, faulty test. At this point, I don't even know why people continue to give this whole COVID thing energy and continue to feed into the mainstream narrative. With all that's happened, the elites are in damage control and holding on to this COVID non-sense. Love it or hate it but the BLM protest have exposed this whole pandemic non-sense.
What makes you think that this disease is going to behave any differently now than it has behaved in the past?
What makes you think the death rate is going to be any lower than it has been in the past?
I'm willing to listen to an explanation. However, that is a classic situation of simply being unwilling to listen to science and data.
The pandemic isn't nonsense. As of today we have 121,000 dead people because of it. To claim its nonsense is to be in absolute denial.
They had a mass testing near me about a month ago. First day was for health care workers. Second day was for Seniors showing symptoms. Officials were disappointed with the number of people who came to be testing. They were expecting up to 200 a day, but the numbers were under a 100.
Voluntary. So if those with symptoms weren't going to be tested, how many would go who were asymptomatic?
Keywords are voluntary and asymptomatic. Would you try to make testing mandatory for over 300M people? Impossible.
Yes, but WHY is there STILL a shortage of test kits, and of labs? I read a few weeks ago, that Seattle was off offering to test everyone. If they can do it, why can't the rest of the country?
This is exactly how Mongolia has managed to keep fatalities to 0, in spite of sharing a long border with China. They shut the borders, cancelled flights from Korea, Japan, and elsewhere in January already, called their citizens abroad home and quarantined them, quarantined any new cases found, distributed masks free to all residents all over the country, including in rural areas, and required shelter-in-place, cancelling all festivals, conferences, and religious services. 0 deaths, only 206 cases to date, in a country without running water in most areas outside the capital and even IN some districts of the capital! (The yurt neighborhoods.)
If you want good results, you get radical, and you do it at the first sign of trouble. You don't dither for months, then decide to do some half-baked measures.
It's also small and the least densely populated country in the world as far as I know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound
I get that we do not have that today. Really that was not my question.
In a country with our resources that can be brought up to speed if the will is there. Not today but in short order. If it was the number one priority it could be done. Making one of those high throughput lab machines isn't exactly like making an AR-15, or even a Pickup truck. What I do not understand is why we did not a month or two ago ramp up testing capacity. We are going on 4 months dealing with this and testing as well as lab capacity is an ongoing issue. Knowing who actually has the virus is crucial to combating it. Otherwise renewed shutdowns are right around the corner.
Today we had over 36,000 new cases. According to World o Meters which I think does a great job this was the 2nd worst day since the pandemic hit America, worst since April 24th. Its really embarrassing that we are doing such a bad job at dealing with this.
We have been ramping up testing capacity and testing these last couple months. That's partly why there are more cases.
Testing is part of containing this virus. Preventing it is a better approach. We can all do our part by wearing masks, practicing good hygiene, those of us that can stay home should do so, and stop acting like spoiled entitled rectums crying about me me me and my freedom. We have seat belt laws. We have helmet laws, are those government over reach? We have no shoes, no shirt, no service policies in stores. Is that impinging on your freedom? Yes? Tough. You have to comply or get out. It's about hygiene. So is wearing a mask in public. It's the same as wearing shoes and shirts in these days with a highly contagious SARS virus running amok.
We can't test everyone in the whole United States. You're only as good as your last test. Yes, you can be negative one day and positive a week later. I had to have a negative Covid test to have my hysterectomy. There was plenty of incentive for me not to catch this and spread it to my health care workers. That same mentality should exist among all of us not to spread it to each other. It's basic human decency. Unfortunately, that mentality is in short supply with the it's all about me entitled rectum mentality.
In fact if the first shutdown was a short term very effective shutdown, people might even accept a second shutdown because they know there is an end date and it will provide immediate results.
Yes, exactly. Some governors (Michigan, Illinois, etc.) get VERY trigger-happy with the shutdowns. Illinois was originally supposed to have a shutdown just from March 22 thru April 7, about 2 weeks. Nothing good, but tolerable enough. Then it got extended to April 30. Then to May 29. So, the end date becomes illusionary at best, since it can get extended at the governor's whim, for any reason, or even for no reason. To add insult to the injury, big box Walmarts and even liquor stores were declared as "essential", but dentist offices were not.
I don't think any American with a shred of rational thinking will agree to a second set of shutdowns. They'll either protest them, or move away to non-shutdown states.
One massive testing day. Obviously you would need a huge amount of volunteers to test people and run the tests. Hire those who have recovered to do this. Even pay people to be tested.
Quarantine all the positive cases for 2 weeks or until they are no longer positive. Do this again in 2 weeks. Keep doing this until we get the numbers down to zero. And quarantine all incoming people into the country.
Seems to me getting all the positive cases out of being able to infect new people is the best way to fight this pandemic. I know its a massive undertaking just to test everyone, plus the quarantining . But if there was a will to do this we could find a way.
Am I missing something?
Yes. It's in your false premise:
One massive testing day.
That isn't even possible for any number of reasons.
Testing is beneficial only in the very early stages of an epidemic or pandemic. After that, it's useless where transmission is person-to-person.
In January, WHO initially stated there was no person-to-person transmission.
I don't know when WHO admitted their error and reversed themselves or when the CDC figured out it really was person-to-person transmission, but that is when you close the borders of the US.
B-b-b-b-but that's not Politically Correct!
Well, you have to choose whether it's more important to be Politically Correct or more important to save people's lives, because you cannot do both.
The only way to enter the US is by air, and those people are quarantined on the tarmac for 2 weeks.
Can't do it!
Yes, you can. That's what National Guard units are for. You cobble together an ad hoc battalion of medical, MPs and engineers, and a headquarters company because they have more medical plus food service to feed 1,000s.
You set up GP Medium and Large tents, social services donates a TV and board games and card games and everyone sleeps on cots and watches re-runs of Judge Judy and a good time was had by all.
You haven't developed a test yet, but there's still something very important and effective you can do.
Someone at the CDC, and it doesn't matter who, picks up a landline, a cell-phone or a smart-phone or fires off an email to USCIS.
Everyone entering the US, whether they're a citizen or not, fills out immigration forms.
USCIS emails all the arrivals for the last 120 days to the CDC.
The CDC sorts the arrivals by State, because that data contains name, phone number and address where they live or will be staying, then dumps it into a comma delimited file and emails it to each State health director.
The State health directors sort the data by county, and then eliminate all the duplicates, right?
Because Arrival does not equal Person.
I know people that fly out for 1-3 days a week every week for 40-46 weeks a year as part of their job, so arrival does not equal person.
They email that data to county health directors and they contact each person in their county.
If they have half a brain, they'll sort the data by city within the county and email that to the city health boards to enlist their aid or just get them onboard anyway.
Now you call the arrivals.
Where'd you go? What'd you do? Who'd you see? Have you had flu-like symptoms?
If no, then tell them they may have been exposed, sanitize their home, monitor their family, then contact their employer and tell them to sanitize the work-spaces, monitor employees, restrict future travel, etc etc etc.
If yes, jump in the car and make a bee-line to them. Quarantine. Notify their employer, etc etc.
Then, when you finally get test kits, you can start testing the arrivals.
That's how you do it, so you can see how stupid your government really is.
You're way beyond that now and testing is stupid.
You don't have the resources for contact tracing and even if you did, it wouldn't matter.
All you're doing is wasting time, money and resources. You test someone, they're negative and 5 days later they got it and who knows how many people they'll infect and who knows how many people those people will infect and so on.
COVID-19 is going to be around for a few years, so if you're vulnerable, self-quarantine, if you can't, then mask-up, otherwise go live your life as best you can.
A medical quarantine of sick or likely sick people is constitutional. The US Supreme Court says that a state's police powers to regulate the health, welfare, and safety of its citizens outweighs the temporary loss of liberty involved in a quarantine. I'm reading your post to suggest that mandatory testing of people is unconstitutional. I think you would apply the same legal analysis that you would to a quarantine. If it is necessary to protect the health, welfare, and safety of the community that interest prevails over a temporary and minor loss of liberty. I think most people would prefer being tested to being forced into quarantine for two weeks. Those who don't could have the choice of quarantine instead of a test.
Gibbons v. Ogden, 22 US 1 (1824).
Compagnie Francaise de Navigation a Vapeur v. Louisiana Board of Health, 186 US 380 (1902)
Technically, no, no it isn't. The U.S Constitution simply makes no provisions for these type of issues. Martial law for instance - not covered.
Some state constitutions and laws have provisions, that appears to what you have quoted the cases above as it has nothing to do with federal law or the federal constitution. Judges then have to decide and then if needed, and/or if enough people complain it goes to the Supreme Court or US Justice Department to ponder the questions. Essentially it's handled as a case by case issue. Traditionally, the supreme court leaned it's interpretation of the constitution on individual, not collective, rights (i.e. gun control). Common law rules like you mention help the argument however.
For obvious reasons - forcing each and every American to take a test on one day, which would disrupt a persons freedom of movement and action considerably, would prompt a pretty serious constitutional court case challenge.
Last edited by Dd714; 06-24-2020 at 12:27 PM..
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