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There are people living here who constantly tell millions of Americans that millions of their fellow Americans are an evil, irredemable enemy.
I'm not mentioning any names.
You know who they are.
Downplaying the pandemic that's killed 125,000 of us.
Trying to remove health care coverage for millions.
Yep...
That's hating Americans.
I find taking away health insurance to be particularly offensive when anyone can catch a life threatening disease that may put them in intensive care in a hospital.
Let's just say even if you object to the ACA or "Obamacare" or whatever you want to call it that if you are trying to get it thrown out right now that your timing stinks.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 06-26-2020 at 10:23 AM..
I find taking away health insurance to be particularly offensive when anyone can catch a life threatening disease that may put them in intensive care in a hospital.
Let's just say even if you object to the ACA or "Obamacare" or whatever you want to call it that if you are trying to get it thrown out right now that your timing stinks.
Yeah it is repulsive. Especially in a moment when it is more necessary than ever.
Yeah it is repulsive. Especially in a moment when it is more necessary than ever.
That is because those people don't care about you at all. The sooner we realize the Stockholm Syndrome of the Republican Party/Conservatives the better. The tax cuts didn't really help job growth and wage, they went to stock buybacks and dividends with a one-time bonus. Repealing Obamacare they say will go help the little guy but lots of us will have preexisting conditions from the virus and be awaiting drops in coverage without protection. This must be stopped.
There are people who are living here say that America is evil and irredeemable.
How can any one live in a country he/she thinks is evil , in the country that causes him/her daily grief and suffering by its existence?
So yes, if anyone claims this country is evil - they have to leave.
If there wasn't shady pasts in American fore-fathers, I would mostly agree (except for them leaving because that is unconstitutional.) However ten out of the first twelve presidents owned slaves, eight of which owned slaves while in office. Why are you defending slave owners? That is what you are doing.
If there wasn't shady pasts in American fore-fathers, I would mostly agree (except for them leaving because that is unconstitutional.) However ten out of the first twelve presidents owned slaves, eight of which owned slaves while in office. Why are you defending slave owners? That is what you are doing.
Where did I defend slave owners?
That was the quickest playing of a 'racist' card I've seen in a long time.
So yes, those presidents owned slaves. How can we change that fact? We can't. That is in the past and we cannot jump into a time machine and change the past.
So that is what I am talking about: you are saying is since all those first presidents owned slaves - the country is irredeemable. There is no way to fix it.
So the logical question is: if this country is evil and always will be evil (no way to change its past) - how can you live in such an evil country? How can you benefit from all the wealth and technology this country created?
If someone is so morally superior and the country is irredeemably evil, they have no other choice but to move to a country that didn't have slave owning presidents.
Where did I defend slave owners?
That was the quickest playing of a 'racist' card I've seen in a long time.
So yes, those presidents owned slaves. How can we change that fact? We can't. That is in the past and we cannot jump into a time machine and change the past.
So that is what I am talking about: you are saying is since all those first presidents owned slaves - the country is irredeemable. There is no way to fix it.
So the logical question is: if this country is evil and always will be evil (no way to change its past) - how can you live in such an evil country? How can you benefit from all the wealth and technology this country created?
If someone is so morally superior and the country is irredeemably evil, they have no other choice but to move to a country that didn't have slave owning presidents.
You said America was evil, I am merely pointing to one of the normal spots on the wheel of evil that it lands on when it is spun. The others being military, big business, religious overreach, racism (some overlap with slavery but there's more to it) and sexism. In fact, slavery is one that is one of the biggest parts of American history being challenged right now, that and racism. Many consider "Slavery to be America's original sin." It is hard to argue otherwise except our handling of Native Americans after the Revolution. I don't think we are irredeemable, but rather we have to look at ourselves in the mirror and atone for sins from our past and work to make a better future.
Do you want a better future and one where we aren't falling into the traps of America is evil, or do you want a better nation? Remember the same right that gives you the right to say you cannot call America evil is giving them the right to say America is evil. The founding fathers gave us this right in case we were to ever disagree like they did with the English crown. Many founding fathers actually feared what America became whether it was the Civil War or now.
Inciting mobs to break the law and tear down historical statues divides the country. For some reason. You would think everyone would be in favor of law and order.
Military dictatorships also thrive on the law and order mantra.
You said America was evil, I am merely pointing to one of the normal spots on the wheel of evil that it lands on when it is spun. The others being military, big business, religious overreach, racism (some overlap with slavery but there's more to it) and sexism. In fact, slavery is one that is one of the biggest parts of American history being challenged right now, that and racism. Many consider "Slavery to be America's original sin." It is hard to argue otherwise except our handling of Native Americans after the Revolution. I don't think we are irredeemable, but rather we have to look at ourselves in the mirror and atone for sins from our past and work to make a better future.
Do you want a better future and one where we aren't falling into the traps of America is evil, or do you want a better nation? Remember the same right that gives you the right to say you cannot call America evil is giving them the right to say America is evil. The founding fathers gave us this right in case we were to ever disagree like they did with the English crown. Many founding fathers actually feared what America became whether it was the Civil War or now.
I didn't say it is evil.
That is what some on the left are saying. And some of them say those past sins are so grave - they are irredeemable. So those - they have to leave if they want to maintain their higher moral ground.
As for my opinion about past sins:
1. It is not our sins. No one is responsible for what some other person did 200 years ago.
Anyone is responsible only for his/her actions.
That alone should stop all this non-sense about white guilt and need for reparations.
2. Those were harsh time. No one at the time lived up to our emasculate standards.
Everyone was fighting constant wars, slavery was everywhere, native americans were killing one another on massive scale, etc.
But if you listen to our progressively gifted, one would think that americans invented wars, slavery and deceases. This is just ridiculous to even argue with such people who know nothing about world history.
3. Slaves did suffer. And they should've been compensated. But there are no slaves living now.
4. I don't know where you are coming from and what better future do you envision and don't know what is the best way you think is to get there.
At least we agree that we should be allowed to voice our opinion and disagreements and don't risk to lose our jobs or risk getting physically hurt because your opinion might upset someone.
Are we still on the same page?
And for better future, we what we should do is to stop stirring race wars and stop encouraging people to blame others for their misfortunes.
Especially when their own actions contribute 99% to their misfortunes, but we are not even allowed to point to that. Instead we have 24/7/365 media frenzy about the 1% and how we all have fix that 1% before we are even allowed to mention the elephants in the room that contribute 99% to the misfortunes.
If someone is a descendant of a slave and feels he/she needs to be compensated - he/she should realize that if not for slavery they would be living in Africa in much worse conditions right now. So I wold say they benefited from slavery much more than they have suffered from it.
Same applies to the contribution various races made to technology, medicine that we are taking for granted.
Considering that pretty much everything that we enjoy today (technology wise) was invented by whites and by western civilization - it is really appalling to hear some racial groups demanding that whites need to constantly apologize for past sins and keep appeasing them because whites were not perfect. They want whites to be perfect, but never want to look at themselves and their own imperfections. Which , by the way, are current ones , not from 300 years ago. But I know, I know. All those imperfections are because of what systematic racism that made them imperfect.
If there wasn't shady pasts in American fore-fathers, I would mostly agree (except for them leaving because that is unconstitutional.) However ten out of the first twelve presidents owned slaves, eight of which owned slaves while in office. Why are you defending slave owners? That is what you are doing.
Each century has its own society. America was a product of the 18th century, and built on the ideals of The Enlightenment, but if you are looking for perfection in the people who lived there, you will be sadly disappointed.
The 19th century did much to correct the evils of the 18th century, but practiced its own share of evils. A third of a million Americans died to put an end to the slavery you abhor, and uncounted others bore crippling and disfiguring wounds for the rest of their lives. Then the country abandoned Reconstruction and left the South at the mercy of carpetbagger profiteers, and ex-slaves as the object of hatred. America also conducted a horrifying genocide campaign against Native Americans, and invented the reservation system which became a model for the German death camps and Stalinist gulags of the 20th century.
The 20th century was a golden era for America, as it rose from a second place country to world dominance. The only threat to American hegemony was communism. The Russian Revolution at the beginning of the century was a shock, and the collapse of capitalism 12 years later was an even greater challenge. WWII left America the only untouched industrial power in the world, and put the rest of the world back to work rebuilding the bombed out rubble. Unfortunately, WWII did not end with WWII. The Korean War was a continuation of WWII, and the only reason the Vietnam War happened was that Eisenhower double crossed Ho Chi Minh and blocked free elections.
In the 21st centry, we are still fighting WWII, with a huge military-industrial complex we don't need, in wars we have no business fighting. Spain lost four centuries of development by squandering its national treasure to build an armada. Without learning from history, we jumped right in to repeat the mistake. A lot of Americans feel they got the shaft. They are right. The system is not designed to benefit the average citizen, and when something breaks they are the first to suffer. It's not a surprise that there is an undercurrent of anger, which is only controlled by convincing them to blame the other team.
Think about it. You are blaming a bunch of guys who lived in the 18th century. Do you really think that is productive? Who put that idea in your head? You are being played for a sucker.
We have seen this tired old line return in the past month and a half in light to protests related to the death of George Floyd (I am not including riots because that is something altogether different.) "America, love it or leave it." Along with other more vulgar variants. I have to ask why? It goes against what our founding fathers wanted for America. They revolted against Great Brittain due to unfair laws in light of paying off the French and Indian War debt including the Stamp Act, the Townsend Act, the Tea tax and the Intolerable Act. Founding fathers knew we wouldn't always agree.
I ask why do we have to resort to this. Don't we all want America to prosper? I can agree our methods and ideology behind how to make America better and prosper can be different, but why must we all agree on one thing.
So, in 2016 when everyone was complaining about how great America wasn't, why weren't people telling all the MAGA folks to "love it or leave it? It seems there is a societal constraint on which Americans are allowed to voice their dissatisfaction. Funny how that works, right?
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