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Originally Posted by LKJ1988
Why even go? It's dead , barren. We need to get to other planets with life that are light years away but no way to ever get there without a jump drive.
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You don't need to find life but you do need to find a variety of minerals and metallic ores. Of course, I'm assuming that future generations on Earth don't want to live like people did in the 1880s or even the 1920s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts
True but as has been noted previously, we do know how to block radiation; it just requires lots of material.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch
I think the delay between two consecutive missions would be long enough that it could be considered a 200 REM dose, followed by another 200 REM dose, not adding them up to make 400 REM. 400REM acute dose is where you are starting to see measurable damage, although it's not yet into the serious damage "Get this guy to the hospital!" level.
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The data is wrong.
38 of us, myself included, were exposed to 50,000 to 70,000 millirems over a period of 2-4 years. All of us are fine. Of the two who are dead, one drowned and one died in a motorcycle accident.
As a reminder, Hollywood is not a reliable source of anything nuclear. Everything they dream up is wrong. Having said that, they actually came kinda close in one film (
True Lies). Kinda.
Most people on Earth are exposed to 33 millirems/year. Some a little more, some a little less.
All of you overstated the danger of radiation without touching on the only real radiation problem.
The Sun produces A-, B-, C-, M-, and X-Class solar flares. M and X are the most dangerous because they also have proton storms accompanying them. As you recall, the Carrington Event was an X-17 Class solar flare accompanied by a massive proton storm with energies around 30,000 mEv (Million Electron Volts) that fried most of the telegraph system in the US.
Also, as you recall from spherical geometry in the 5th grade, the Sun can eject a solar flare at any point on the sphere. That's the bad news. The good news is both Earth and Mars are in the Plane of the Ecliptic so the Sun must eject a solar flare from the region of its equatorial band that is within plus or minus 5° of the Plane of the Ecliptic in order to have a chance to hit Earth or Mars or a spacecraft travelling to/from Mars.
Since Earth's magnetosphere offers little to no protection against high energy proton storms, there's no way a spacecraft could protect itself, unless it was able to move out of the path of the ejecta, and that certainly would be a possibility if the spacecraft were designed to do that and not interfere with its arrival on Mars.
I have found most people are wowed by numbers.
Yes, in Space it's possible you might be exposed to up to 2,000 millisieverts (if you happened to get caught in a solar flare) and that sounds really, really scary because 2,000 is a big number but it's only 200 rems.
200 rems ain't gonna kill you.
Would 3,000 to 5,000 rems kill you? The only truthful answer to that question is "It all depends."
It isn't how much radiation you get it's how quickly you get it. That's the principle behind a certain ERW the Media dubbed "the neutron bomb."
If you're within 2 miles of the detonation you'll get 3,000 to 5,000 rems within an hour or two or three. If you're 3-4 miles away, you're still not safe. We live in an Aluminum world. The bomb knows that. Well, the designers knew that. Tanks have Aluminum. Infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers are made of Aluminum. Your car, your office/building, your home, your cell-phone has lots of Aluminum.
Aluminum will capture the fast moving neutrons and convert to a radioactive isotope of Aluminum. It has a half-life of only minutes. The nucleus is highly unstable and to get itself "right" it will eject one of the most powerful gammas ever observed. That gamma is 10x more deadly than the neutrons. So even if you're 3-4 miles away, you can still get 3,000+ rems in a few hours.
The truly sad thing is you'll be jumping for joy because you won't have any symptoms of anything and you'll think you made it; you survived; you're home free.
You'll go about your business and 3 days later you'll face plant dead. Obviously you can't face plant whilst sleeping but you'll be dead just the same.
If you were exposed to 3,000-5,000 rems over a week, you would show symptoms and you would be incapacitated and unable to function. Medical treatment would be futile and a waste of resources because death is the outcome.
Although possible, it is highly unlikely you could be exposed to 3,000-5,000 rems in a month. The only way it would be possible is if it was voluntary, you lacked awareness, or you were trapped near a source and unable to escape. You would show symptoms about 2 weeks in and be incapacitated to varying degrees. Medical attention offers a better than average chance of survival.
Over the course of a year, and again that would have to be voluntary, or not aware you were near a source, or you were aware but have no way to get away from the source, but it isn't much of an issue. Some people might experience mild radiation sickness. A few others might feel lethargic. There isn't anything in the way of medical treatment, but for those freaking out they could consume mass quantities of foods and beverages that are known anti-radicals.
Anything beyond one year is basically a nothing-burger.
The risk of cancer is a crap-shoot. There aren't any really good studies and the one that would be is still classified (the radiation experiments illegally conducted by the government at what was then Cincinnati General Hospital).
The cells in your body reproduce at different rates. Some reproduce every 20 minutes others reproduce in hours or days and some like nerve cells never reproduce.
Your body is mostly Hydrocarbons and H2O. Certain foods and beverages, many toxins like UDMH (Unsymmetrical Dimethylhydrazine), and ionizing radiation can break the bonds on H2O and the Hydrocarbons producing free radicals like C+, H+, H++, -OH and others.
Those free radicals roaming around your body might attach themselves to the nucleic acids that are the DNA in your cells. Very obviously, that alters the nucleic acid to something else.
During cell reproduction the "data" in the affected gene gets garbled in transmission. The usual result overwhelmingly is death. The two cells produced are dead, or die immediately or within a brief period. There's no harm to you.
Less frequently, the result is benign. The medical term is leukoplakia. Those cells are abnormal in appearance and/or structure and may or may not function properly but they cause you no grief. All the cell tissues in your mouth reproduce rather quickly. Your dentist or oral surgeon might swab you and hit your mouth with ultraviolet light as part of an oral cancer screening. It isn't unusual for people have oral leukoplakia but if there are large numbers of cells (meaning an extensive area) your dentist or oral surgeon might suggest a biopsy to be on the safe side.
Less infrequently you get berserker cells. These are abnormal and often reproduce faster than they're supposed to. They are harmful to you. They will destroy the surrounding cell tissues. That's what we call cancer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts
Space is dangerous. Unfortunately, so is Mars and the Moon.
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Life is dangerous. Perhaps we should all cower together in a cave. But then, caves are dangerous.
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