America’s child care problem is about to get a lot worse. (illegal, pros and cons)

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by Ice_Major

I'm going to defend feminism on this one. While I do agree the ideas put forth by feminism particularly second wave feminism have changed society in a manner that lead to the problems we see today regarding family creation, at the end of the day it wasn't feminism or women for that matter that changed the preexisting laws, culture, or customs. It was the men in power at that time. It's not like women took up arms and demanded these changes or else war. The men in control of society made the changes, thus it can be argued "it's men fault" in a way.

Ok, I wont blame women completely but families are now really being taken advantage of with how much childcare costs and they can't just quit work now. It's hard to justify because there ARE still some women who choose to stay home. Some dads these days stay home while wife goes to work. I'm just saying that with costs in certain areas most people cannot be on one income and the daycare costs show no mercy. It's a problem and some not so great choices have to be made for many who want kids these days.

[Ice_Major]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Ok, I wont blame women completely but families are now really being taken advantage of with how much childcare costs and they can't just quit work now. It's hard to justify because there ARE still some women who choose to stay home. Some dads these days stay home while wife goes to work. I'm just saying that with costs in certain areas most people cannot be on one income and the daycare costs show no mercy. It's a problem and some not so great choices have to be made for many who want kids these days.

To be fair to childcare centers actually operate on low margins (1% - 3%), so no one is getting rich from running a center. The cost are primarily due to regulations because everyone wants their child to be safe right. It would be nice if a middle class income could allow one parent to stay at home like the old days, but that ship has said. We can blame a variety of factors, but this is now the world we live in. We just have to adjust. The "not so great choices" as you allude. Overall our society suffers. They're are many on here who believe the solution is to allow more immigration. This is not the long term solution as it only dilutes the existing culture, increases competition for the natives, leading to instability.

[KaraG]

Back in the day, we hired neighborhood moms to help watch the kids. Costs were reasonable and many stay at home moms were able to supplement their household income by taking care of other kids in the neighborhood. Then the government got more involved and offered the child care credits, requiring the reporting of social security numbers and babysitting income. Many good mothers dropped out and many kids had to go to higher cost day care centers or to in home licensed day cares. It just wasn't worth the additional hassle for many good moms to continue.

[rya700]

Kentucky had a great idea. Childcare is free for the workers at the childcare centers.


https://www.npr.org/2023/10/06/12031...y-care-workers

[springfieldva]

Originally Posted by msRB311

I know that no one wants to hear this but feminism basically did this. Women wanted out of the kitchen and into the work world. So here we are and we've put ourselves in a place where it's now very difficult to live on one one income in many places so two people NEED to work. Not everyone has the luxury of quitting and staying home with the kids now even if they want to. Childcare providers know this and can now charge exorbitant amounts since this is something people NEED.

women wanted to be in the working world but didn't think decades ahead to what families would do when they were forced to be in the working world with no one to watch their kids.

I think the saying "You can have it all, just not all at once" is true. I know quite a few women who worked a decade or more before having children and then stayed home when their children were little. Once the kids entered Kindergarten they returned to work. They benefited greatly from having previous work experience and had a long career ahead of them.

These days quite a few women can say that they have been both a breadwinner and a stay at home parent at different times in their lives.

[rya700]

Originally Posted by KaraG

Back in the day, we hired neighborhood moms to help watch the kids. Costs were reasonable and many stay at home moms were able to supplement their household income by taking care of other kids in the neighborhood. Then the government got more involved and offered the child care credits, requiring the reporting of social security numbers and babysitting income. Many good mothers dropped out and many kids had to go to higher cost day care centers or to in home licensed day cares. It just wasn't worth the additional hassle for many good moms to continue.

I tried that with neighbors who were SAHMs. It worked out with one for a year or so until she abruptly moved away. Another quit on me with no notice and told me my 6month old baby was spoiled. And yeah we had a problem where I wanted the tax credit for what I paid her but she would have to report the income and she didn't want to do that for fear it would disrupt her slew of government benefits.

Thankfully My DH and I were able to work opposite schedules after that so we didn't need babysitters. They are preteens now. I breathe a huge sigh of relief to be past that "finding childcare" stage

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Hearthcrafter

Housing and healthcare are two of the largest financial hurdles families face today.

And it's their fault.

Originally Posted by elnina

We all know that living from one salary is not possible for a very long time now.
But it seems that instead to help working families, their struggle is going to be even worse. There are long waiting lists for day and kindergarten care, and the fees are going up and up. What options families with kids have?

You can thank your State legislatures for that.

And you can thank a devious left-wing group known as the Model Working Group who run about the US lobbying State legislatures to adopt the cookie-cutter laws they write so that all States have the same laws to pave the way for a unitary-State with a king, or I guess emperor since this is the US.

Ohio is a textbook example. Like other State legislatures, they stupidly adopted the statute without thinking and it requires all daycare workers to have a one-year Early Childhood Development Certificate.

Everyone working in daycare now has a choice to make.

1) The majority of daycare workers are not college material, never were, and never will be. They simply couldn't pass the classes so they aren't going to get the Certificate. They're no longer part of the employment equation.

2) The next largest group are those who have no desire to go to college. Their experiences at the elementary and high school level probably left a bad taste in their mouth which doesn't help so they're no longer part of the equation.

3) The next group are those who cannot go because of other obligations which prevent them from going full-time for 2 years or part-time for 3-5 years to get the certificate.

4) A smaller group does have the time to go to college but if they're going to invest the time and money, they'd rather get a different certificate/degree that would provide for greater opportunities, so they're out of the equation.

5) <3% have the time and money and are willing to get the Certificate

Since wages are determined by the Supply & Demand of one of the 800+ skill-sets (see the DOL website) in a given labor market the rest is academic.

My labor market is Earth. I was working from home more than a decade before it was vogue. There's only 38 or 39 of us (most of us know each other) and I do contracts for $30,000 to $50,000 and maybe 2-3 a year if I feel like it because I'm not really interested in money (or working). I have all I need.

The labor market for an Ohio attorney is Ohio. You're in Cleveland, the client is in Cincinnati. Yeah, so what?

You know what a phone is? Good. Talk to the client over the phone, text them the fee agreement or hourly retainer agreement using Adobe or Docusign or Kofax, they tap in the box and there you go. You can file pleadings electronically from the comfort and safety of your home. You can even pull into a strip mall and file electronically from your lap-top whilst shopping for lingerie if you feel like it. Big whooptydo.

But, daycare workers are confined to a physical geographical market.

A daycare would post a job opening and get 10-25 applicants.

Now a daycare posts a job opening and hopes to get at least one applicant in the next 10 weeks and prays they have the Certificate in Early Childhood Development.

My wages are up. Wages for Ohio attorneys are down. Wages for daycare workers are up.

Daycare workers in Ohio typically got the State minimum wage but now they get double and that has increased the cost of daycare.

Instead of being $1,800 to $3,200/year (depending on where you live and whether it's the garden-variety daycare or high-end daycare) now it's more than $10,000/year.

It actually costs more for 1 year of daycare than it does to go full-time 1 year at the University of Cincinnati.

I sure hope you don't wanna take my money to fix a problem the State legislature caused.

[Sand&Salt]

Originally Posted by Dopo

Everybody that says this has never been outside of America

cash, discounts, gifts ... that doesn't do anything when a poor family can't get sick because they'll go backrupt
they are forced to have a car (huge expense) because public transportation sucks in this country
and the list goes on and on.

Amen. Our "developing" country has free health care for all. No such thing as deductibles and all that crap. Prescription drugs are cheap. Average income is $400 a month but the moms stay home and have several kids. No one needs a car either. Plenty of public transportation.

We spent time in Spain and Portugal and I arranged for some medical treatment there. Procedures had a fixed cost, you knew it all upfront, and they cost 1/5 or less than in the U.S. Again, plenty of public transportation. We never needed a car.

Imagine, they actually "care" about their populace over there.

I've read many accounts of folks in the U.S. going bankrupt even WITH insurance. It's insane.

[Seguinite]

Originally Posted by pathrunner

Says the person who has never needed social services. Maybe you should be thanking your lucky stars instead of criticizing people and the government for something you know nothing about. It truly is not affecting your personal pocketbook so why do you care so much?

Do you think the money to pay for these services just falls out of the sky? It absolutely DOES affect the 'personal pocketbook' of people that don't need/use them.

[pathrunner]

moguldreamer, whom I was addressing specifically, has let it be known several times that he has plenty of resources.