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Old 07-01-2009, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
Reputation: 36644

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1969 View Post
Overall, income is a poor way to measure wealth. You could be sitting on a bunch of money or land and have very little income for an outsider to measure. .
Give us a hint. What is a good way to measure wealth? Why would you care if an outsider can measure your income or not? How do we measure the wealth of your friend who owns millions of dollars worth of land, and has to work for your wife to earn enough gas money to drive across her land? I have friends like that, too. They inherited their land, and are either stupid, lazy or unskilled.
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Old 07-02-2009, 05:02 PM
 
822 posts, read 2,047,048 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Give us a hint.
I have serious doubts that you can take one but I'll try.
Quote:
What is a good way to measure wealth?
How about net worth?
Quote:
Why would you care if an outsider can measure your income or not?
I don't but that's the yardstick currently used now when people line up for free money, at the expense of whoever earned it.
Quote:
How do we measure the wealth of your friend who owns millions of dollars worth of land, and has to work for your wife to earn enough gas money to drive across her land? I have friends like that, too. They inherited their land, and are either stupid, lazy or unskilled.
There is no reason to measure her wealth or income as she's not asking anybody for anything free of charge. I guess you missed it in my previous post that I said she and her husband bought and paid for every square inch of that land with their own labor. She is hardly 'stupid', 'lazy', or 'unskilled'.
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Old 07-02-2009, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1969 View Post
What is a good way to measure wealth?
How about net worth?
OK, lets go with that. Using that yardstick, the USA might be the poorest nation on earth. A very large number of Americans, maybe a majority of them, have negative net worth. Their debts exceed their assets. I doubt there is another country on earth where anywhere near half the population has negative net worth.

A derelict in India who sleeps on a piece of cardboard in the slums of Calcutta has more net worth than about half of all Americans. He owns his piece of cardboard, free of encumbrance.

By the way, a really reliable way to find out the value of your assets is to set them out on the lawn on Saturday and put up a sign that says Yard Sale. You will quickly see what your assets are worth.

Last edited by jtur88; 07-02-2009 at 06:55 PM..
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Old 07-02-2009, 09:21 PM
 
822 posts, read 2,047,048 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
OK, lets go with that. Using that yardstick, the USA might be the poorest nation on earth. A very large number of Americans, maybe a majority of them, have negative net worth. Their debts exceed their assets. I doubt there is another country on earth where anywhere near half the population has negative net worth.
Well, I feel sorry for them but it does not have to be that way. There are a few principles by which one can live which will nearly always work such that a person is not in the hole. People who want their instant gratification RFN have no one to blame but themselves for their financial predicament.

Quote:
A derelict in India who sleeps on a piece of cardboard in the slums of Calcutta has more net worth than about half of all Americans. He owns his piece of cardboard, free of encumbrance.
Tax him and give our people an earned income credit!

Quote:
By the way, a really reliable way to find out the value of your assets is to set them out on the lawn on Saturday and put up a sign that says Yard Sale. You will quickly see what your assets are worth.
True enough. The market is pretty reliable.
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Old 07-03-2009, 03:50 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,658,013 times
Reputation: 11084
I just have to wonder why "wealth" is important to anyone...
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
I just have to wonder why "wealth" is important to anyone...
Because our economic system is based on the principle that if you do not find a way to get wealth, you are not entitled to food or shelter or dignity. There are even people who believe that God said so. This belief is particularly widespread among those who have a lot of wealth.
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,658,013 times
Reputation: 11084
I see "wealth" as different than subsistence though. Making enough to "get by" is not "wealth".
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Old 07-04-2009, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
I see "wealth" as different than subsistence though. Making enough to "get by" is not "wealth".
You can use the term to mean whatever you want, but the rest of us are going to keep on using it for what it means.

wealth
  
3. Economics.
a. all things that have a monetary or exchange value.
b. anything that has utility and is capable of being appropriated or exchanged.

From Wikipedia

In personal finance, net worth (or wealth) refers to an individual's net economic position; similarly, it uses the value of all liabilities minus the value of all assets (long term assets).
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Old 07-04-2009, 09:24 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,769 posts, read 40,171,028 times
Reputation: 18106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
By the way, a really reliable way to find out the value of your assets is to set them out on the lawn on Saturday and put up a sign that says Yard Sale. You will quickly see what your assets are worth.
Ummm.... not really. But I'd love to come across your yard sale one day. lol.

Yard sales are good for blowing out used common household goods cheaply. Would you sell your cars at a yard sale? Or a real diamond ring or bracelet? I think not. People shop at yard sales looking for bargains in the 25 cent to $5 range. And to most people, going to a yard or garage sale is just a cheap past time. Most people aren't in the mindset to buy things over $50, let alone a fair market price of several hundred or thousand dollars.

Yes, the free market sets the prices on many items, but their are many market systems and they aren't all equal. For a really rare and fine quality antique (if you knew what it really was, but the average person doesn't), one would send it off to Sotheby's or Christie's as the most knowledgeable, strongest (richest) and motivated buyers would more likely be there than just happening by your street yard saling. And with a good auction house, they have experts to verify what the item is (not a reproduction or fake) and guarantee its condition (like no repairs). They know who the top collectors are and they make sure that these people are aware of the item and what auction it's going in. And if the item is really outstanding, it might get feautured on the cover of the auction catalogue. To get the top prices, it's all about marketing strategy and presentation. Of course, one pays those top auction houses for their services through their selling commissions, but if the antique is good enough, going to them is well worth it.

Years ago, someone sold a really fine Arts and Crafts Movement pottery vase at a specialty antiques auction for $165K. The backstory was that they were taking a shortcut through a neighborhood one weekend morning and stumbled across a yard sale. The collector immediately caught sight of this beautiful vase and immediately knew what it was. However someone else was already negotiating for its purchase. The homeowner wanted $100 for the vase, but the other person was trying to buy it for less. Well, long story short, the first person passed on the vase and the collector happily bought it for the owner's very reasonable asking price of $100... Lucky bastard!

And actually, the fair market price of anything is just sort of the average price the common person might pay for it. And there are still many people that might not want that item for any price at all, and there are those fewer buyers that would be willing to pay much more for that item if they collecting it or they needed it right away. The best time to buy a snowblower, new or used is in the middle or the summer when no one needs one and the sellers put them on sale just to try to motivate potential buyers. But when it's winter time, the prices are the strongest, especially when a blizzard is forecasted.

Anyway, if I needed to liquidate my possessions, I certainly wouldn't spread everything out on my lawn for a yard sale.
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Old 07-04-2009, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,658,013 times
Reputation: 11084
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You can use the term to mean whatever you want, but the rest of us are going to keep on using it for what it means.

wealth
  
3. Economics.
a. all things that have a monetary or exchange value.
b. anything that has utility and is capable of being appropriated or exchanged.

From Wikipedia

In personal finance, net worth (or wealth) refers to an individual's net economic position; similarly, it uses the value of all liabilities minus the value of all assets (long term assets).
Being wealthy means being able to "share the wealth". Being poor, you can't afford it, even if you're "working poor".
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