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I see you still can't site an example of an intelligent code morphing from non-living matter.
I see you still cannot show that God materialized out of nothing. In fact, you just made an eloquent argument that "something" caused time and space to exist. Why does that argument not require that there be "something" to cause God to exist?
God must have existed before time, or how could He have caused time to exist?
Where did "the waters" come from?
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
As long as we're quoting Carl Sagan:
"I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws"
I see you still cannot show that God materialized out of nothing. In fact, you just made an eloquent argument that "something" caused time and space to exist. Why does that argument not require that there be "something" to cause God to exist?
Clearly you've refused to read everything that was addressed before. You need to understand what true science is what is empirical vrs anecdotal. The patterned mathematical precision of the universe is empirical and so is the pattern of DNA, and both of these truths infer a designer.
I have no problem with someone being skeptical, but it goes both ways. Skepticism can be and is an excellent tool, but in your case it's purely a worldview and that's lousy. The problem with your worldview of random evolution/mutation is that on the subject of the very origin of life itself, your side says the odds of it happening are so impossible and improbable that it evidently only happened once. Therefore it cannot be proven, but it never the less it did happen that way and you just have to accept that explanation. Because of that, it cannot be proven or tested. Yet we are continually having the very definition of what true science is shoved in our faces and here is what your favourite infallible book Wikipedia has to say on the definition of scientific method. When you look up the definition of "Scientific Method" it has this to say.
Quote:
Scientific Method, refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[1] A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses"
Now because it is by your sides own explanation impossible to demonstrate thru observation, experimentation, etc, then not only is your position unscientific, it's down right stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Turner
God must have existed before time, so how could He have created time?
God has no need of time and space. Who would measure it. Scientists have shown that time began with Big bang or whatever you choose to call it. It was at that point that time began as we all know time. Prior to that there was nothing and time did'nt matter since there is no purpose in measuring nothing.
I've already given an excellent example on this and you did'nt like it. That's fine, you don't have to like it. That's your free will and worldview right as the O.P. originally stated, these views may come from anywhere or anybody.
But once again I'll ask, cite us an empirical tested example of how the original informational code came from a natural materialistic only process.
The above link is a good informative read for anyone. I don't want to get any further off topic than it already has, but it still is proof of a final authority whether or not it is recognized.
God has no need of time and space. Who would measure it. Scientists have shown that time began with Big bang or whatever you choose to call it. It was at that point that time began as we all know time. Prior to that there was nothing and time did'nt matter since there is no purpose in measuring nothing.
:
If there was "nothing", there was no God. Or else, God is "nothing", or at least, a subset of nothing, which is less than nothing.
What human is capable of defining what God has need of? By whose standards? By human standards? Or by God's standards? How do you know God's standards? The Bible tells you?
When are you going to explain that water that was there already when God created earth, that the Bible also tells us about? I bet DNA was already in that water.
I believe all of us have a belief of something good. It can be religious in nature, spiritual or just a person who has influenced us to the point of inspiring us to believe. Beliefs such as my own have changed during the years due to family, friends, or a renewal of my own desires I like to say are more ethical than my past beliefs so my old beliefs can be replaced by renewed ones.
I too dislike being told I am a kind of a servant to the one above....
'Originally Posted by jtur88 I see you still cannot show that God materialized out of nothing. In fact, you just made an eloquent argument that "something" caused time and space to exist. Why does that argument not require that there be "something" to cause God to exist?'
REPLY: Because ONLY FINITE things that come into being need a cause ; the Source which brought the first finite thing into existence from nothing has to be INfinite (beyond and not limited by finitism) and thus doesnt need a cause. Only something which was brought to exist needs a Cause. There has to be a Prime Mover...a Source which brought our Universe into existence when there was no time, material, or space present -- THAT requires a willful Mind ...one which is unfathomably powerful , of infinite intelligence, of infinite love, and which is eternal because the Universe is not. This Source is God . God is a very necessary Being because Nothing doesnt bring something into existence from nothing ; like Julie Andrews sang :' Nothing cant produce something, nothing ever could' (from My Fair Lady Musical). Can you now see the type of awesome personal Creator we have which is our ultimate purpose in getting to know and enjoy in this life , leading into eternity WITH him ? Would you like to have this ? You can . Its available to everyone . Why wouldnt someone want this ... can you think of any reason why ?
If there was "nothing", there was no God. Or else, God is "nothing", or at least, a subset of nothing, which is less than nothing.
What human is capable of defining what God has need of? By whose standards? By human standards? Or by God's standards? How do you know God's standards? The Bible tells you?
When are you going to explain that water that was there already when God created earth, that the Bible also tells us about? I bet DNA was already in that water.
You know there's nothing wrong in saying you don't know or you are ignorant on a few things. But posting stupids rants and arrogant sarcasms when you clearly don't understand the subject is making you look very much the fool. I'm not trying to show that you are, but you're clearly not even remotely coherent at this point and I can only take a stab at the cause. I understand it is your football season over there, maybe you should just wait until after the game and come back tomorrow ???
You know there's nothing wrong in saying you don't know or you are ignorant on a few things. But posting stupids rants and arrogant sarcasms when you clearly don't understand the subject is making you look very much the fool. I'm not trying to show that you are, but you're clearly not even remotely coherent at this point and I can only take a stab at the cause. I understand it is your football season over there, maybe you should just wait until after the game and come back tomorrow ???
Are you saying I don't know the meaning of the word "nothing"? What do YOU think it means?
Do you believe that the ones who were in the military and defended our Country who have not asked to be forgiven have a chance?
I do because if it were not for those of us who gave up our life of easy going to go into the military you and I and all Americans would not have the freedom to write in this post or even go to school to learn....
Actually The reason I bring it up here is that many of the pseudo-geniuses from the lower swamp of this forum who have morphed up from that virtual pre-biotic cesspool and quite often quote and link to it as a source of infallible information, when back down in the lower swamp their demonized, made fun of, insulted, threw profanities at any religious person who would show a link to Wikipedia to try and explain their position on anything.
I read your post and do not agree with your reasoning. I view everyone as a human who can rationalize what is right and what is wrong but some may not be able to perform that task. Those that cannot have the rights the same as you or I. They may show up anywhere but do we have the right to mock or criticize them on their written beliefs?
I believe as long as their end result is lawful and without malace of thought, I cannot find it in myself to scorn that person.
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