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The OP's statement that "all immigrants who came into the country assimilated into American culture" is absolutely wrong. Case in point: the Irish. Many of the Irish who came into the country demanded that they have the same traditions as the old homeland, or adapted them to the realities (like on St. Patrick's Day, they wanted pork like in the old home but were too poor to afford it, so they learned from their Jewish neighbors a cut of beef which is similar in texture, so thus was born using corned beef). And, what further created this sense of needing to find clusters of other Irish (see Dogtown in St. Louis and the far South Side in Chicago) is that the other (mostly British) "old families" saw them as a blight. Eventually we became Presidents, engineers, poets, artists, and politicians and stars.
What makes America "America" is its diversity. I also note that all previous waves of immigrants who were downtrodden when they first got here eventually succeeded in general in "assimilating" the American culture to their own and then the American culture as a whole absorbing that. More recent immigration waves, like Hispanics and Muslim, are not unique from this historical trend of being downtrodden / looked down upon when they first get here and I predict then eventually being accepted and succeeding. Blacks have had the worst time and are a notable exception, but this is changing, and for the better, ever so slowly.
So, at what point do we all become "American" varies widely. For some, it is the moment they step foot on the soil of the USA and bring their culture and their ideas, for our benefit, even if many sectors of our established culture do not like it very much at first. For others, it isn't until their children or their grandchildren that they become "American" and truly consume and add at the same time to the American experience.
I'm asking because the face of the USA is changing.
The immigrants who came to the USA in the 1700's - 1800's and early 1900's assimilated into American culture.
Yet today, when people come here they find niches in this country and carry forth the culture they had where they came from and don't attempt to assimilate into American culture. One excuse I have heard many give is that America doesn't have a culture.
Our nation allows people to come to this country from every nation on the planet to live "the American Dream". When many of these people come here they carry on the same cultural standards where they came from. They don't attempt to integrate into American society.
I do understand that the first generation of immigrants usually cling to the culture where they came from but there are people who have lived here for 50 years who do not speak English or attempt to assimilate and continue to see Americans as foreigners when a person out of their culture ventures into their comfortable segregated city block.
The face of this nation is changing.
Discuss.
Teddy Rosevelt answered your same questions many years ago. Google up Teddy rosevelt speach on immigration .
There are still Italian, Irish, Polish, Chinese, etc... sections of cities. Many of these people proudly display their ethnic heritage, and identify as being different than others with differing ethnicities.
How many generations did that take? Some immediately assimilate, some don't. It's the way its always been. Give the newer immigrants a couple generations. 90% of them will speak fluent English, and a majority of them will likely no longer speak their families previous language. It's happened many times over the years from many successive waves of immigrants. Have some faith in your country. It has a great ability to take people from all over the world with differing beliefs and values, and get them to work together in a functioning society.
If you've followed my extensive posts on this, you'll know I don't hold immigrants responsible for not assimilating...I hold US responsible. Moreso than in most countries of the world, America truly belongs to "us", its inhabitants. Things happen here because we LET them happen....and if we want to simply "give the place away", that's our fault...not those to whom we "give" it. They're outsiders..they only know what we tell them when they get here. If we tell them we have no official language...no official culture...no official 'way of doing things'....and if we require nothing 'from' them, as a condition of their being able to live here...then that will form their initial impression of their new home...as a place where 'anything goes', a place where one need not assimilate (because there's really nothing to assimilate TO)...and a place where, even if you don't arrive legally, you STILL have a huge array of 'rights'...just by virtue of having 'shown up' here. A place which requires one (in the official 'oath of citizenship') to "forsake former loyalties and alliances"..but doesn't really mean it, because we ALSO allow one to be a 'dual citizen'...(loyal to "us"...and also loyal to "some other place", as well.. Wonder how that approach would work in the marriage vows?)
That may be a 'weird' way for a society to present itself to new arrivals...but if that is in fact the case, do we blame the 'newcomers'?..or do we blame the 'locals'?.
I think we're doing a perfectly LOUSY job of 'selling ourselves' to immigrants. I think we could demand a LOT more, and still be looked at as a 'nice, decent, and welcoming' society....and we MIGHT even get a little 'respect' thrown in as a bonus. But if we don't...I don't blame the immigrants...I blame US. After all, "why buy a cow, when the milk is free ?", as the old saying goes. (No, that old adage wasn't referring to immigration...but it might just as well have been)..
I think most European countries have a national story (and then there's the bits of Yugoslavia that might have more of an ethnic grouping than national story).
I was thinking of the wider world beyond the U.S. and Europe. Much of Africa, formed as countries (not nations) from the breakup of empires.
I asked a Nigerian co-worker if he feels nationally like a Nigerian, and he sort of hemmed and hawed and said yes. I asked him, what about the Muslims in the north and Nigerians from Arab backgrounds? And he said, "Oh, no, not them, screw 'em." I believe some 200 dialects are spoken in Nigeria. I don't think places like that have a national story so much as lines on a map.
Then there's pieces carved off of the old USSR. Ethnic groupings. You can't have a country for one group of people if there's more than one group in it, at least not in a reasonable way. I thought one part of the U.S is that different groups come, keep their "Four F's" (food, fashion, fun, festivals) as personal/local expressions, and abide by the laws and mores that at least try to say that people accept people who are not like themselves. (And the ethnic expressions seem to become relics in a generation or two).
That is assimilation to me- when a Laotian doesn't kidnap an underage girl in a marriage ritual because he knows that's not done here, and his son wouldn't think of doing it. Etc.
In a word, it'll never happen. The (artificial) divisions created by groups to distinguish themselves from other groups in this country carry too much significance.
I was thinking of the wider world beyond the U.S. and Europe.
Me too. Although you are right, I probably was thinking more did than really do, in ignoring Africa. However, most countries in South America have national stories. Off the top of my head I can think of how all Venezuelans love Bolivar and feel they have a national identity and history. Colombians even share part of this past, yet feel like they are very different than Venezuelans, despite general cultural similarities that are more similar that different population demographics in, say, Canada. Bolivians and Chileans have their national tiff.
Most East and Southeast Asian countries have their own national stories, from Japan, China, and Korea to Thailand and Vietnam. And as far as I can tell most Indians, despite being extremely ethnically and religiously diverse, identify as Indian and its national story, for the most part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brightdoglover
Much of Africa, formed as countries (not nations) from the breakup of empires.
I don't know much about Africa, but I believe you are correct. Which is why in many African countries there is difficulty in having a cohesive national mentality. Middle-eastern nations seem to have this issue as well, from what I superficially tell. Many people identify with a more ethnic, religion or local level.
Just a note: after colonial independence these would qualify as nation-states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brightdoglover
Then there's pieces carved off of the old USSR. Ethnic groupings.
I don't know much about those republics either. Ethnic-based republics always have to stuff up the cracks in their inconsistencies. But then, so do all nations. National stories always contain some myths or dissonant ideas embedded within. How concretely ethnic these countries are in their national stories and ideas, I don't know.
Last edited by bluebeard; 10-06-2009 at 09:04 PM..
A quote within a review of his book (don't actually go to this link, it's a Marxist rant. I just wanted to steal this paragraph)
Quote:
Originally Posted by =http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=401&issue=117
He argues there were three main kinds of nationalism, arising in successive waves: “creole” nationalism associated with the revolt of the American colonies (“creole” in its Spanish use means a Latin American of European ancestry); “language” nationalism associated with western Europe; and “official” nationalism associated with central and eastern Europe, and with the Asian and African anti-colonial movements.
Last edited by bluebeard; 10-06-2009 at 08:52 PM..
I recall Ronald Reagan, on his first state visit to Latin America, registering astonishment and saying "Wow, these are all separate countries down here!". I give him credit for noticing that, even though it is pretty obvious once you get there. He, like most Americans thought everything was exactly the same, from Tijuana to Cape Horn. In most places, crossing a border in Latin America reveals a very conspicuous difference from one country to another. That is less true of Africa, where international borders are little more than shake-down stations where bribes are collected. In Asia, nearly all borders are sharp delineations of very proud national cultures.
I recall Ronald Reagan, on his first state visit to Latin America, registering astonishment and saying "Wow, these are all separate countries down here!". I give him credit for noticing that, even though it is pretty obvious once you get there. He, like most Americans thought everything was exactly the same, from Tijuana to Cape Horn. In most places, crossing a border in Latin America reveals a very conspicuous difference from one country to another. That is less true of Africa, where international borders are little more than shake-down stations where bribes are collected. In Asia, nearly all borders are sharp delineations of very proud national cultures.
I totally thought South America was all the same until pretty recently.
Although I would hope more from the president.
However, I was utterly astounded when, in my somewhat recently adopted state, someone asked me if Asian countries speak different languages. Not much Asian presence over here.
My El Salvadoran neighbor was astonished when somebody asked him how he celebrates Cinco de Mayo. That's like asking an Australian how they celebrate the Fourth of July.
In fact, when I returned to the US with my Canadian wife, she was invited to join a women's social circle. The first day, she just stood there and watched them all recite the Pledge of Allegiance. They were dumbstruck, and she explained that she's Canadian. They asked "Don't you say the Pledge of Allegiance in Canada?"
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Wonder how that approach would work in the marriage vows?)
