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Read the subject line of this thread. "Father". In the context of this discussion, a man is any person who is biologically capable of being a father. That, sir, is simple biology.
If you want to define a man as something different than "biologically capable of being a father", then start a new thread. You're speaking the wrong language for this one.
Unless you are arguing that a child needs to be raised not by a father, but by some macho caricature from a Bud Lite commercial.
I was raised by a single mother and she did a great job raising me. I have turned out to be a respectable, professional person; however, as I got older, I began missing my father. There was a void there no one fill but him. He was 'around' but not in the household. We have a great relationship now and I remember him telling me something that struck me. One day I fessed up to him some very painful and embarrassing segments of my life when I was very young and even up to college. He said with a sigh, 'I am so sorry I wasn't around more. If I were, I really believe the things you've been through could've been avoided if I were there to guide you.'I strongly believe that it is crucial and critical to have the patriarch in the home. Whenever I discuss this with some women, they totally dismiss the father's importance in the home. It's almost like you have to prove why they are necessary. I've never had anyone downplay the importance of a mother in the home, so why fathers?
What would be the point of having a father in the home if the father was using drugs, selling drugs, wouldn't work and chased women?? I left my ex when my son was 11 years old and never looked back. I raised my son alone and he has grown up drug free, alcohol free, respectful and is married with a wonderful wife of his own now. We don't get to choose how our husbands decide to handle being a Dad and when they choose to turn their backs on it, then they need to GO. You can't force anyone to be a Dad and you cannot keep them in the house because it is assumed that kids turn out better with two parents.
My ex was a total loser and would have done my child more harm than good had he stayed around. Did my son see him after the divorce? When the mood hit my ex to see his son, he would either call him and be all DRUNK and obnoxious or he would be higher than a kite. As my son got older, he hated being within 50 feet of this man.
The sad part of having a loser Father is that as the child gets old enough to understand things, he will form his own opinion of his Dad as my son did and choose how he wants to handle it. My son and his father do not speak. My son traveled 400 miles to attend his grandfather's funeral (Paternal Grandfather) saw his Dad for the funeral and after promising to come back and visit with my son after the funeral, (the ex had to go home and change clothes), he never came back. The ex chose to stay in his woods camp and get drunk and high instead of being with his son. Nice...some things never change.
NO I do not think a child needs both parents in the houselhold; it would be nice but in the real world, it just isn't a sure thing. I always thought my ex would teach my son how to be a man and I would teach him how to be a gentle-man...I ended up doing both and it was difficult..would not have done it any different.
What would be the point of having a father in the home if the father was using drugs, selling drugs, wouldn't work and chased women?? I left my ex when my son was 11 years old and never looked back. I raised my son alone and he has grown up drug free, alcohol free, respectful and is married with a wonderful wife of his own now. We don't get to choose how our husbands decide to handle being a Dad and when they choose to turn their backs on it, then they need to GO. You can't force anyone to be a Dad and you cannot keep them in the house because it is assumed that kids turn out better with two parents.
My ex was a total loser and would have done my child more harm than good had he stayed around. Did my son see him after the divorce? When the mood hit my ex to see his son, he would either call him and be all DRUNK and obnoxious or he would be higher than a kite. As my son got older, he hated being within 50 feet of this man.
The sad part of having a loser Father is that as the child gets old enough to understand things, he will form his own opinion of his Dad as my son did and choose how he wants to handle it. My son and his father do not speak. My son traveled 400 miles to attend his grandfather's funeral (Paternal Grandfather) saw his Dad for the funeral and after promising to come back and visit with my son after the funeral, (the ex had to go home and change clothes), he never came back. The ex chose to stay in his woods camp and get drunk and high instead of being with his son. Nice...some things never change.
NO I do not think a child needs both parents in the houselhold; it would be nice but in the real world, it just isn't a sure thing. I always thought my ex would teach my son how to be a man and I would teach him how to be a gentle-man...I ended up doing both and it was difficult..would not have done it any different.
I would argue that "chasing women" doesn't make him any less of a father, just a bad husband.
I've known lots of guys who are terrible husbands, but are good Daddys. Now if the "chasing women" gets in the way of being a good dad, then thats a different story. These matters are hardly ever black and white.
I know many women who jump to the "Your a bad dad" when their husbands cheat, simply because its an effective measure of making them feel bad about their actions. However, if the dad is spending time with his child, loves them, and helps them grow up, and is still cheating on his wife, I would say that the problem is between the wife and husband, not the husband and the kids.
Due to my parents divorce, at age 6, I was sent to live with an Aunt and her daughter. The Aunt's husband had passed away a few years before I came to live with her. The Aunt's daughter was adopted, a few years older than me and had some mental problems. For the following 7 years, my life wasn't the greatest at all! Grades were D's and F's and I had to do two years in 3rd grade. During the summer before going into the 8th grade, I was abused by my Aunt, taken out of the house and chose to live with a couple that a relative recommended to Child Services. This couple wound up with "legal guardianship" of me. The first year I lived with my new "mom" and "dad" was somewhat hard, but a whole lot better than living with my Aunt! I was living on a farm and had to help both my new "mom" and "dad" with farm work......and pretty much liked it. After a year of adjusting to living with "parents", my life turned around pretty drastically. My grades went up to B's & C's, I was in 4-H and other things, got Blue Ribbons for Science projects and at Graduation, was called up on the stage to accept a 4-Year Perfect Attendance Award. Yes, 4 years of not missing a day of school, unless their was no school due to snow. During those 5 years of living with those relatives, I helped my mom do dishes almost every night and helped my dad do farm work. I am very glad that I lived in a "2-parent household" for those 5 years before going out on my own!!
You know, I think it really depends on the quality of the father.
All things being equal, I think a strong, honest, hard-working, loving father deepens and strengthens the family. What's more, I think that fathers provide a different perspective on life than mothers. Not better, not worse, only different.
Further, I think one of the saddest things is a boy who doesn't have a father figure in his life. That is NOT to say that the mother can't do a great job. But fathers teach boys different lessons about growing up, and how to face the world. How to change the oil in the car. How to treat women with respect and caring. How to gain satisfaction from one's work.
Case in point? The father of the family next door left at Christmas last year. He shows up once every two weeks, but the two boys seem somehow lost and sad, even though the mom is doing the best she can.
I would argue that "chasing women" doesn't make him any less of a father, just a bad husband.
I've known lots of guys who are terrible husbands, but are good Daddys. Now if the "chasing women" gets in the way of being a good dad, then thats a different story. These matters are hardly ever black and white.
I know many women who jump to the "Your a bad dad" when their husbands cheat, simply because its an effective measure of making them feel bad about their actions. However, if the dad is spending time with his child, loves them, and helps them grow up, and is still cheating on his wife, I would say that the problem is between the wife and husband, not the husband and the kids.
Like hell it doesn't.
The lessons a father imparts have to do with how to live a happy life. If you demonstrate to your son that screwing around on your wife is okay, then he'll go out and do the same thing, too.
Due to my parents divorce, at age 6, I was sent to live with an Aunt and her daughter. The Aunt's husband had passed away a few years before I came to live with her. The Aunt's daughter was adopted, a few years older than me and had some mental problems. For the following 7 years, my life wasn't the greatest at all! Grades were D's and F's and I had to do two years in 3rd grade. During the summer before going into the 8th grade, I was abused by my Aunt, taken out of the house and chose to live with a couple that a relative recommended to Child Services. This couple wound up with "legal guardianship" of me. The first year I lived with my new "mom" and "dad" was somewhat hard, but a whole lot better than living with my Aunt! I was living on a farm and had to help both my new "mom" and "dad" with farm work......and pretty much liked it. After a year of adjusting to living with "parents", my life turned around pretty drastically. My grades went up to B's & C's, I was in 4-H and other things, got Blue Ribbons for Science projects and at Graduation, was called up on the stage to accept a 4-Year Perfect Attendance Award. Yes, 4 years of not missing a day of school, unless their was no school due to snow. During those 5 years of living with those relatives, I helped my mom do dishes almost every night and helped my dad do farm work. I am very glad that I lived in a "2-parent household" for those 5 years before going out on my own!!
Your story illustrates an important point. One can have parents that one has no biological connection too.
I do believe society should try to help people who have biological children measure up to handling the role and responsibility of "parent". I'm all for parenting classes and some expenditures for drug and alcohol treatment. Sometimes subsidized housing and medical care maybe necessary as well to keep families together and get them back on their feet.
However, I think sometimes we miss sight of something very important. This is about the children. Its not about the people who gave birth to them.
There comes a point--as your story illustrates--where its time to simply give up on the notion that biological parents can be rehabilitated or fixed. When that time comes, its time to find a new home for the kids where the previous problems can be left behind. This is not going to be a perfect solution. However, leaving kids in a bad home is far from a perfect solution too. Sometimes getting kids out a home where there is bad parenting going on is in everyone's interest.
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