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Not sure if patriotism is the right word but is there anything wrong with a person who, regardless of country of origin, goes about his/her own life normally but deep down doesn't give a damn about his/her own country?
This person may have good intentions and will work to better mankind but completely rejects the notion of a nation and/or is completely oblivious or indifferent towards nationalism.
Depends on focus of values. People who hold strong religious views commonly hold them above any political views. People who have internalized value systems don't depend on either political or religious standards to guide them. All aspects are required for a functioning country. Look up jingoism and fascism for some examples of why extreme patriotism can be bad.
A non-patriotic individual would prioritize family and self over country and probably leave the country with his family if war came to his homeland. You see this a lot when developing nations go to war in the millions of displaced refugees fleeing the fighting instead of staying to defend political systems they don't give a damn about.
For a US allegory, I think we can assume a non-patriotic person would not volunteer to fight. If he had the chance to move to another country at peace, he would probably do so rather than be drafted for a war of aggression in a foreign country.
Probably the only time the answer would be "yes" was if he was confident that becoming a soldier would provide for his family better than leaving their land and possessions behind. This might happen in the case of invasion where his own property and kin were threatened.
Quote:
Does he pay his taxes?
This is almost certainly a "yes."
So what's the verdict?
I don't see anything wrong with a lack of patriotism. I bet the majority of people on the planet probably put country way down their list of important things, below family, god, and self.
I don't see anything wrong with a lack of patriotism. I bet the majority of people on the planet probably put country way down their list of important things, below family, god, and self.
From a personal standpoint, going back 8 generations in our family, every generation at least one, has served in the military to present. I joined, not drafted, and served 21 years, son joined after 9/11 (not for a job as he had a MS degree) and was deployed several times. Why? I guess some of us feel it is our duty to preserve the freedoms our forefathers died for and to preserve them for future generations. Maybe I am a minority, but I still get a tear in my eye when the national anthem is played, or another soldier is fallen in Iraq or Afghanistan. Patriotism, love or country, I am proud to say that is important to me and my family.
When I see that part of the definition of patriotism is vigorously supporting my country, I have to wonder if I qualify completely. I love living in the U.S. I have no issue paying taxes because I know that they pay for the basic services and infrastructure that make this country so great to be in. But there are issues that I have that cannot be ignored when considering if I am "patriotic".
For instance, I am outraged when I think of the billions of dollars our government has spent to fight a war we had no business starting in the first place. If George W. Bush had been more patient after 9/11 an international coalition of countries could have planted watchdogs in Iraq until the end of time to make sure that weapons of mass destruction were not being built there. Any opposition by Saddam would have given the INTERNATIONAL COALITION the right to take appropriate steps.
It makes me sick to think that so many people died in New York that tragic day. It may be the most poignant moment in my life to see our country attacked like that. But it was even more sickening that so many more Americans had to die afterward because our government was so anxious to retaliate against anybody as quickly as it could. I never understood the connection between Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein in the first place. It sure seemed evident that there was a much stronger connection to Saudi Arabia than to Iraq. I always suspected that because daddy Bush failed to extricate Saddam after Kuwait that sonny-boy wanted to clean up a mess that wasn't really a mess we needed to be involved in in the first place.
So many local school districts across the country are constantly cutting their budgets because there is not enough money to pay for basics like teachers and books. It boggles my mind that some schools no longer offer music or fine arts as part of the normal curriculum. Yet we can easily find the money to attack a foreign country at the drop of a hat. I will only mention the need to address health care briefly in comparison to the enormous piece of the budgetary pie spent on defense.
And don't get me wrong, I don't care how old I got, if another country tried to attack our shores I would volunteer to fight in a heartbeat. I would gladly die as an older man fighting to protect my country if it needed me. But I have seen no benefit to our country from any war dating back to Viet Nam. And I am not ignorant to the need for our country to be a leader in international affairs, but warfare just isn't the answer anymore. I also understand that some degree of deadly force must be used in places where opposition to reasonable diplomacy forces the hand. These instances could and should be dealth with on a coalition basis, the larger issue being that we as a species have to evolve out of the warfare mentality in favor of the peaceful, marketplace mentality.
I feel the same about politics. I don't see our bicameral system of politics doing anything but blaming one another and digging their GOP heels in until they become the governing party. Very little seems to be getting done in Congress because each party wants to be the party that gets the credit for change, and the GOP does whatever it can to prevent the other side from looking competent. As a result, very little actually gets done.
I believe our forefathers made it possible for any changes to be made to the government during the national convention held every four years. But this time is more of a parade and dog-and-pony-show than it is a government of the people for the people working to substantively improve the quality of life for all Americans. Maybe the usefulness of a two-party system has run its course? Surely another solution could be put in place. Even a Presiden't term could last six years without the opportunity for reelection.
I don't normally complain about these issues because I have no desire to become an activist and it seems wrong to complain without doing something. But I don't think it is entirely bad or wrong not to support aspects of one's own country. I don't think it makes me unpatriotic. I do appreciate what the first war did to ensure our rights as free people, and the ensuing three wars that guarded against communist and fascist agression and hegemony (yes, I ignored the Civil and Spanish/American). I am exercising the freedom so many died for to enable me that right now. I just hope that someday cooler heads will prevail and domestic issues can take a forefront over foreign ones.
I believe in light of these issues I have I can still call myself a decent American citizen...
The main purpose of any nation is defense. Without defense, we can't survive, so I would say no one should live in a nation they don't feel some degree of allegiance towards. Otherwise, they can't be trusted. There are leftists who believe we are all one world and one species, so we should not divide ourselves up into nations. But they are living in a fantasy. We need the friction of nations banging against each other, because a world government would be all powerful and impossible to oppose.
And within a nation, there has to be friction between political parties, and between business and government, to keep any one faction from become too powerful.
I think the main reason for lack of patriotism is leftism, or socialism, or whatever you want to call it. It is a believe that friction and conflict are unnecessary. I strongly disagree with that.
The main purpose of any nation is defense. Without defense, we can't survive, so I would say no one should live in a nation they don't feel some degree of allegiance towards. Otherwise, they can't be trusted. There are leftists who believe we are all one world and one species, so we should not divide ourselves up into nations. But they are living in a fantasy. We need the friction of nations banging against each other, because a world government would be all powerful and impossible to oppose.
And within a nation, there has to be friction between political parties, and between business and government, to keep any one faction from become too powerful.
I think the main reason for lack of patriotism is leftism, or socialism, or whatever you want to call it. It is a believe that friction and conflict are unnecessary. I strongly disagree with that.
I would argue that defense is a main objective of a nation. And even if it were, 75% of the budget dedicated to defense is a bit high in my opinion. I would also disagree that fighting an unnecessary war is part of a defensive strategy. And further, the fantasy of no nation-states sounds like a terrific, however utopian world. Just because we cannot envision a form of government that does not exploit its citizens does not mean that it is not possible.
I also fully support competition and the capitalistic mentality. If I were a scholar or a philosopher I might be able to better envision a world where "think before you shoot" is the norm, not the perceived weaker exception.
But this is only a discussion after all...
Last edited by manquaman; 06-29-2011 at 04:19 PM..
The responses to this question have been interesting. Like other posters, I have ancestors who have fought in every American war back to the Revolution. My brother fought in the Gulf war, but my nephews were too young (or have been thus far) to fight in Iraq or Afghanistan). I also had ancestors who were disowned by the Quaker families for fighting in the Revolution.
That said, I am a pacifist. I do not believe in war. I do not support war. According to a poster above, that makes me a untrustworthy, leftist, socialist. So be it. Administrations send our loved ones into war to come home with severe mental and physical problems, while their sons and daughters are safe at home. No, I don't support it.
I do, however, love what my country represents, what it stands/stood for. I vote. I pay my taxes. I write my representatives. I sign petitions for change. That's how I show my patriotism.
To answer the OP, no, I don't see a problem with folks who aren't particularly patriotic. (I'm not a fan of nationalism at all.)
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