Is The US Becoming a "Broken Society"? (government, country, American)
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There are plenty of ObamaCare discussions here. Can we keep this from becoming overly-focused on only that issue and discuss the larger picture of where US society may be headed?
You're the one who tossed that bait out, and now you're blaming the fish for bitin'?
Go to any other industrialized country, and find me one single individual who must endure sickness or injury untreated until he can pay for it himself out of his own pocket. Their system works for everyone, because you can't find a single person on the globe that it does not work for. The fact that a system works for you does not imply that it works for everyone. The role of government is not to make things just right for you, but rather for everyone. The selfish me-firsters never seem to recognize that.
Jtur- Go to Canada... see how long it takes to get a specialized procedure. See how long the wait is. Go to Britian. Their single payer system is TERRIBLE. Do you know anyone from England? I do. The folks from England that I know like US health care better. Name a current medical innovation created in one of these socialized medicine countries. It does not happen. Know why? Because there would be no financial gain in doing so in these places. competition and free markets create innovation. always has.... always will.
Whose opinion do you trust as far as the preferred Health Care process? Doctors? Or Lawyers?
Leaders of other countries come to the U.S. for complicated procedures.
Selfish me-firster? What if your child is sick and you are waiting in line and have no control over the situation. These are real issues that people do not want to face. In reality.... not in happy, happy la la land.
Give me an example of ONE Gov't program that is efficient...... name one. I bet you can't.... because one does not exist.
So..... if you are going to argue in favor of Obama care, please do so based on the merit that you feel that EVERYONE is entitled to free health care. DO NOT argue that "free" Health Care will create cost savings or that it is more efficient. That is absolute nonsense.
Jtur- Go to Canada... see how long it takes to get a specialized procedure. See how long the wait is. Go to Britian. Their single payer system is TERRIBLE. Do you know anyone from England? I do. The folks from England that I know like US health care better. Name a current medical innovation created in one of these socialized medicine countries. It does not happen. Know why? Because there would be no financial gain in doing so in these places. competition and free markets create innovation. always has.... always will.
Whose opinion do you trust as far as the preferred Health Care process? Doctors? Or Lawyers?
Leaders of other countries come to the U.S. for complicated procedures.
Selfish me-firster? What if your child is sick and you are waiting in line and have no control over the situation. These are real issues that people do not want to face. In reality.... not in happy, happy la la land.
Give me an example of ONE Gov't program that is efficient...... name one. I bet you can't.... because one does not exist.
So..... if you are going to argue in favor of Obama care, please do so based on the merit that you feel that EVERYONE is entitled to free health care. DO NOT argue that "free" Health Care will create cost savings or that it is more efficient. That is absolute nonsense.
The issue is not about free health care but any health care. I can name two government programs that help MILLIONS OF AMERICANS- the VA and Medicaid. No system is perfect and these programs are not free!
The issue is not about free health care but any health care. I can name two government programs that help MILLIONS OF AMERICANS- the VA and Medicaid. No system is perfect and these programs are not free!
The VA infrastructure is in terrible shape. Medicaid is WAY over budget and basically unsustainable. I agree they help people..... but at what cost? AND.... are they efficient? (NO.) Who is going to pay for this? The U.S. deficit is over 14 TRILLION. It doubled from 5 to 10 in Bush's 8 years and has already reached 14 under Obama. WHO WILL PAY FOR THIS?
OP- sorry if we are off track here.... Healthcare is what is on everyone's minds these days.
Jtur- Go to Canada... see how long it takes to get a specialized procedure. .
I lived in Canada for 15 years. So, been there, done that.
My best friend lives in Canada, he has been fully prepped (in plenty of time) for home dialysis (not yet necessary), and will receive a kidney transplant, when appropriate, with a donor already matched. Everybody with more urgent need was done already, before he was.
Now, my friend, YOU go to Canada, so you will know what in the hell you are talking about.
Quote:
Selfish me-firster? What if your child is sick and you are waiting in line and have no control over the situation. .
Well, I would not demand that my child goes first because I have enough money to afford a better health plan than the poorer kids. Is that what you mean by "control over the situation"? To demand favoritism? I'm not a me-firster.
When my step-daughter broke her ankle on a trampoline (in the US), she lay on a gurney for two hours in the triage room, because there had been a car accident and the ER staff was all busy. No way would I insist upon exercising control over the situation, to my advantage over others. That's for the me-firsters.
They created an atomized, segmented society and then the state had to come in and attempt to repair the damage.
Sorry OP for going off the rails..... to address your thread: It seems like our current culture is completely void of a sense of community. Mini malls, chain stores, highways, massive housing developments built on highways.... Main Streets are dying.... malls are thriving. Who even knows their neighbors anymore?
We are a society of Jones' buying the next toy, striving for our children or family alone in competition with everyone else. The best house, the best schools, the best car, etc... going into debt to achieve these things.
If your child is doing poorly in school.... blame the teacher.
If you can't pay your mortgage.... walk away.
If you have a misfortune.... sue someone... anyone you can.
Make purchase decisions based on price and price alone.... regardless of where it is made, how it is made, etc...
I agree that it is not the Government's job to change this. People need to start making decisions based on more than their own CURRENT self interest. People need to attempt at least a semblance of service in their life. (not saying I do this.... just preaching). There has been fairly good success with the Environmental/ green movement. I would like to see this sort of grassroots movement for a more community based society. (although the green movement has been politicized/ corporatized... but I will not go there).
Well, I would not demand that my child goes first because I have enough money to afford a better health plan than the poorer kids. Is that what you mean by "control over the situation"? To demand favoritism? I'm not a me-firster.
Hey Jtur- Get off your high horse..... people are CONCERNED about this. You have neatly arranged this issue into the good (presumably you) and the bad (the "me-firsters"). Can you comprehend that there are hard working people that want to have control over their health care? They do not want the Government to dictate what they can or cannot do. Is someone that is irresponsible and does not take care of their own health needs a "me-firster"? If not, why? What about responsible individuals taking care of their own needs?
Apologies for assuming you were not familiar with Canada's healthcare.... but please remember than Canada's ENTIRE population is the same that Obama's plan will automatically cover immediately.
They do not want the Government to dictate what they can or cannot do.
Why not? They don't seem to mind the insurance company dictating what they can or cannot do, or what their doctor can or cannot do for you. They don't seem to mind that there is an entire office full of highly-paid experts at their insurance company scrutinizing every claim, trying to find a loophole through which they can deny the claim according to the fine print that they put into the policy that you have no power to negotiate.
But then, you can trust a corporation to care about you, but not the government. Did I get that right?
But then, you can trust a corporation to care about you, but not the government. Did I get that right?
Nope... I think a corporation cares about profit and shareholder value. I think the Government cares about power and control.
Anyway.... we are never going to agree and we have hijacked this thread.
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the issue is not about FREE health care
