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Old 03-23-2010, 09:55 AM
 
Location: No Mask For Me This Time, Either
5,660 posts, read 5,088,512 times
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Op-Ed Columnist - The Broken Society - NYTimes.com

"...over the past generation we have witnessed two revolutions, both of which liberated the individual and decimated local associations. First, there was a revolution from the left: a cultural revolution that displaced traditional manners and mores; a legal revolution that emphasized individual rights instead of responsibilities; a welfare revolution in which social workers displaced mutual aid societies and self-organized associations. Then there was the market revolution from the right. In the age of deregulation, giant chains like Wal-Mart decimated local shop owners. Global financial markets took over small banks, so that the local knowledge of a town banker was replaced by a manic herd of traders thousands of miles away. Unions withered.The two revolutions talked the language of individual freedom, but they perversely ended up creating greater centralization. They created an atomized, segmented society and then the state had to come in and attempt to repair the damage."

Food for thought. Seems to describe today's culture pretty well, eh? The Healthcare fiasco passed is further evidence. Socialism is not the solution, despite the current administration's belief that it is.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post

Food for thought. Seems to describe today's culture pretty well, eh? The Healthcare fiasco passed is further evidence. Socialism is not the solution, despite the current administration's belief that it is.
Why do you bellyachers keep screaming socialism? As far as I know the only thing along those lines the current administration has even considering doing is replacing an unaffordable, broken and dysfunctional 19th century health care system with one that has proven that it works better than our old system in every country in the world. Aside from that, there continue to be significant budget cuts in every other program in the USA that renders any kind of social assistance from the public treasury.

If you cannot produce evidence that there is a general shift toward socialism in various aspects of American governance, please restrict your characterizations to words that actually have some relevance and meaning in intelligent and educated discourse.

You say socialism is not the answer, and to support your position, you quote an article that lays the blame for our ills squarely on big business. Nice leap.

If the only point you can make is to keep screaming 'socialism' over and over again about every issue, regardless of its relevance, all you are doing is making noise.

Last edited by jtur88; 03-23-2010 at 10:47 AM..
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:44 AM
 
768 posts, read 1,088,149 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
Op-Ed Columnist - The Broken Society - NYTimes.com

"...over the past generation we have witnessed two revolutions, both of which liberated the individual and decimated local associations. First, there was a revolution from the left: a cultural revolution that displaced traditional manners and mores; a legal revolution that emphasized individual rights instead of responsibilities; a welfare revolution in which social workers displaced mutual aid societies and self-organized associations. Then there was the market revolution from the right. In the age of deregulation, giant chains like Wal-Mart decimated local shop owners. Global financial markets took over small banks, so that the local knowledge of a town banker was replaced by a manic herd of traders thousands of miles away. Unions withered.The two revolutions talked the language of individual freedom, but they perversely ended up creating greater centralization. They created an atomized, segmented society and then the state had to come in and attempt to repair the damage."

Food for thought. Seems to describe today's culture pretty well, eh? The Healthcare fiasco passed is further evidence. Socialism is not the solution, despite the current administration's belief that it is.

When you consider that 20% of the population owns about 85% of the wealth, I'd say the US is already broken economically and has been for some time.

Socially I'd say the US is broken because most of the people have lost the ability to make moral judgements on their own and have become mindless sheep. They think that law is sacred and no longer understand how to live ethically. This state of being probably was very instrumental in their blindly allowing their fortunes, freedom and futures to be stolen from right under their noses.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,783,759 times
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I disagree. The people screaming "socialism" are creating fear and the mindlessness that goes with the fear. They are doing this to distract people from taking care of themselves instead of making more money for the millionaires.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:49 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
745 posts, read 1,438,306 times
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Quote:
As far as I know the only thing along those lines the current administration has even considering doing is replacing an unaffordable, broken and dysfunctional 19th century health care system with one that is more socialized, and has proven that it works better than our old system in every country in the world. Aside from that, there continue to be significant budget cuts in every other program in the USA that renders any kind of social assistance from the public treasury.
They have proven it works better? How so?
Significant budget cuts? Where? What have they cut?
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:54 AM
 
Location: NorthTexas
634 posts, read 1,558,705 times
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What is wrong with insurance companies not being allowed to reject peoples claims based on their illness or pre existing conditions? What is wrong with the government telling the insurance carriers that they cannot raise rates on employers to increase their profits?

What is wrong about the VA? What is wrong with Medicaid? This is not socialism but a mechanism for people in large groups to get health care, what is wrong with that?

There will always be people who abuse the system (no matter what system it is), but the vast majority of people who need these programs get health care when they need it. It is not about elective surgeries or frivilous plastic surgery. They are Veterns, elderly, and people who have found they need help when they did not have coverage at work. They are American citizens.

Stop the bs and think about who you are talking about. There may be a time when you or a loved one needs help.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
2,811 posts, read 5,626,386 times
Reputation: 4009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
Op-Ed Columnist - The Broken Society - NYTimes.com

"...over the past generation we have witnessed two revolutions, both of which liberated the individual and decimated local associations. First, there was a revolution from the left: a cultural revolution that displaced traditional manners and mores; a legal revolution that emphasized individual rights instead of responsibilities; a welfare revolution in which social workers displaced mutual aid societies and self-organized associations. Then there was the market revolution from the right. In the age of deregulation, giant chains like Wal-Mart decimated local shop owners. Global financial markets took over small banks, so that the local knowledge of a town banker was replaced by a manic herd of traders thousands of miles away. Unions withered.The two revolutions talked the language of individual freedom, but they perversely ended up creating greater centralization. They created an atomized, segmented society and then the state had to come in and attempt to repair the damage."

Food for thought. Seems to describe today's culture pretty well, eh? The Healthcare fiasco passed is further evidence. Socialism is not the solution, despite the current administration's belief that it is.
We are never going to become a totally socialist country. There are certain parts that are socialist- always have been, always will be- and there will probably be a few more social programs here and there that get added. Biggest one being medical care- contrary to what the Republicans are saying, the best way to handle medical care IS socially as opposed to corporate for-profit insurance companies and hospitals/clinics. This is not some crazy, new idea that loony liberals here are coming up with- ALL other fully developed countries in the world and most developing countries in the world do it this way. And again, as opposed to what Republicans are saying, this is not bankrupting those countries, they are not trying to get out from under the weight of this particular social program- it works well for most of them. Just look at France, or even any of the Scandanavian countries- it works very well there.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:11 AM
 
Location: No Mask For Me This Time, Either
5,660 posts, read 5,088,512 times
Reputation: 6086
There are plenty of ObamaCare discussions here. Can we keep this from becoming overly-focused on only that issue and discuss the larger picture of where US society may be headed?
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,783,759 times
Reputation: 24863
I am hoping for a 2000's society without the legal bigotry and hatred of the 20th century. I hope for a restoration of the industrial prosperity supported by a domestic energy system so we don't send vast amounts of money to the oil companies supported by our armies. I hope for reestablishment of the 1940's tax system where the folks that owned the wealth paid for the protection of that wealth. I hope for a federalized universal health care system that spreads the cost over all of our people and eliminates price discrimination in the medical field. I hope for a lot of things that will make the United States a much more pleasant place to live.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:37 AM
 
13,496 posts, read 18,192,756 times
Reputation: 37885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
....Food for thought. Seems to describe today's culture pretty well, eh? The Healthcare fiasco passed is further evidence. Socialism is not the solution, despite the current administration's belief that it is.
Oh, that "socialism" crapola again. Give it a rest, friend. I can remember when the blame word was "negroes," and then there was "communism."

U.S. society has undergone massive changes in the seventy plus years I've been alive, and it is showing some severe social strains in my estimation. It hasn't been my old U.S. for decades, we had already turned in a totally unrecognizable direction by the early 80's.

I thought it sucked then, I think it sucks now.

And, so? People change, cultures change, countries change....nothing's forever. Nothing could have made America's day in the sun last forever.

And there is no going "back."

The worst thing that could happen to the U.S. is to embrace some congealed vision of a never-was Golden Age that we can be returned to by air-headed, tongue-flapping demagogues babbling about "socialism."

Our job start is learn again to manufacture goods that we ourselves want, so we can pry our lips off the nipple of importing everything we use in our daily lives and learn a new lifestyle of self-restraint; and to start finding a place for our nation in the changing world economy instead of increasingly relying on weapons mongering as our only desirable export.

What's more crippled than the national economy is the nation ego.
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