Iran and The Atomic Bomb (Mossad, Brown, independence, salesman)
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Good grief! India attacked Pakistan in 1971, wasn't that reason enough to obtain nuclear weapons, in addition to the Soviets having invaded their neighbors to the north, Afghanistan? Fearing Bhutto was going to acquire nuclear weapons, we stupidly supported anti-democracy, vicious military leader, Zia, all thru the Reagan years, in hopes they wouldn't develop nuclear weapons, and in the end of all that waste of $ funneled to Pakistan, they got them anyway!
Pakistan has no greater love for Israel than Iran, and they're equally capable, and more capable with an alliance with Iran, of reducing Israel to ashes, if need be!
Agreed.
1) That's why I always confront those who question US foreign aid to Israel, but never the foreign aid to Pakistan.
2) I agree about Pakistan being an epicenter of Muslim extremism and terror.
3) Reagan viewed the world and acted with cold war mentality. For these folks, the world was divided in two and our enemies enemy is obviously a friend(!) Every means to fight Soviet Union was justifiable, including training groups like the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan, supporting Saddam and Bin-Laden.
3) Viewing things from a wider perspective: nuclear technology trickled From Pakistan to Iran. People ask what Iran may do first with A bomb, but don't understand the danger of the technology leaking to other extreme regimes and groups. One good reason to stop Iran's nuclear aspirations is to prevent it from reaching others, something that will likely happen once they have the weapon.
4) Nuclear Iran is not the same as nuclear Belgium, Sweden or Denmark.
Agreed.
1) That's why I always confront those who question US foreign aid to Israel, but never the foreign aid to Pakistan.
2) I agree about Pakistan being an epicenter of Muslim extremism and terror.
3) Reagan viewed the world and acted with cold war mentality. For these folks, the world was divided in two and our enemies enemy is obviously a friend(!) Every means to fight Soviet Union was justifiable, including training groups like the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan, supporting Saddam and Bin-Laden.
3) Viewing things from a wider perspective: nuclear technology trickled From Pakistan to Iran. People ask what Iran may do first with A bomb, but don't understand the danger of the technology leaking to other extreme regimes and groups. One good reason to stop Iran's nuclear aspirations is to prevent it from reaching others, something that will likely happen once they have the weapon.
4) Nuclear Iran is not the same as nuclear Belgium, Sweden or Denmark.
I might get bashed for this but if war breaks out between U.S/Israel vs Iran, I'm rooting for Iran! The U.S needs to mind their ever loving business and first get us out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and close the gap on our $16trillion dollar debt prior to even considering backing Israel on their desired war with Iran. Israel needs to stop being hypocritical and declare their own nukes before telling another country that they are forbidden to develop their own. Iran is not that stupid to launch a nuke at Israel unless they were defending themselves against a full out attack by Israel. It would be suicide for them to so. Iran having fully functional nukes would bring stability to the M.E. Neither side would want to F with one another!
According to the media, Israel has nuclear capability for about 40 years. During this time:
1) Never threatened anyone with annihilation. In Israel vocabulary there are no nations/ countries/ religions that should be wiped off, because they are a "cancerous tumor" in the region.
2) It didn't provide this technology to others (such as "freedom fighters"-aka terrorist) groups.
3) It also said it will not be the first to introduce (meaning "to use") nuclear weapons in the middle east.
4) Its declarations were put to test in many military conflicts, including desert storm 1991, Lebanon x2, etc.
"I might get bashed for this but if war breaks out between U.S/Israel vs Iran, I'm rooting for Iran!"
Cheers! I am happy to hear that. I have no idea where you are from, but if you feel so close and (apparently) admire Iran's regime, did you ever consider moving there? I am talking seriously. If there is something I fail to understand is people who hate their country so much, yet continue living in the US, waking up every morning to another bitter day full of hate.
If you are Iranian, please forgive my post.
According to the media, Israel has nuclear capability for about 40 years. During this time:
1) Never threatened anyone with annihilation. In Israel vocabulary there are no nations/ countries/ religions that should be wiped off, because they are a "cancerous tumor" in the region.
2) It didn't provide this technology to others (such as "freedom fighters"-aka terrorist) groups.
3) It also said it will not be the first to introduce (meaning "to use") nuclear weapons in the middle east.
4) Its declarations were put to test in many military conflicts, including desert storm 1991, Lebanon x2, etc.
...
Martin van Creveld at the House of Commons, London, 26 February 2008; photo is from the Wiki article about him. van Creveld is an Israeli military historian.
Quote:
In a September 2003 interview in Elsevier, a Dutch weekly, on Israel and the dangers it faces from Iran, the Palestinians and world opinion van Creveld stated:
"We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force…. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under."
This is my rough decision tree about this whole situation.
Firstly, I will say that you cannot stop a country completely from getting a Nuke. You can only delay them from doing so. A nuke is like any scientific progress, it will proliferate over time...you can only control how fast or slow. So talking in absolutes is disingenuous. If a country does not want a nuke, it either doesn't actively want one or it is not in the right stage of development (both are variables can change over time on a long enough timescale).
That said, in a twisted way, the American's being allied with Israel and actively trying to stop Iran from getting a nuke through conventional and covert means is really the only thing stopping from nukes being set off in warfare for the first time in 70 years. in a weird way the us is protecting iran.
IF Iran is on the verge of getting a nuke, Israel will place a call to the US asking 'are you with us'. IF we said 'no', Israel would use any means necessary (it's own nuclear arsenal) to defeat Iran. So they question becomes, are you willing for Israel to nuke iran in a comprehensive manner. I believe current US policy takes this highly into consideration and it is not all about 'being on israel's side'. It is about controlling the leash on them and the use of nukes in warfare in that region.
The chinese don't care about proliferation and while the Russians do somewhat, it is no where near our fervor for non-proliferation. The relationship with India should be bolstered on this front, but they only too recently felt the ire from the west when they decided to get a nuke 40 years ago so in a way they sympathetic to Iran's position since India was in similar shoes not too long ago.
Therefore, we will be almost alone on this. If Iran did get a nuke, it would set off an arms race in the middle east with the Saudi's wanting one and whoever else in that region.
If you do not wish for iran to have a nuke, you must be willing to deploy a large conventional force a la gulf war 1, with boots on the ground and suffer casualities.
The american public needs to weigh up essentially choices...is lots of american blood and treasure (at a time we are war weary and poor economically) worth non-proliferation/'saving' iran from massive nuclear destruction at the hands of israel.
They say the US has developed a deep penetrating 20,000 pound bomb,haven,t heard much about it lately for possible use in Iran.I would wonder the consequences of this action????
Well said. Another sad part of the situation is the terrorist angle. Any chance Iran gets a handle on nuclear weaponry, all bets are off if organizations that are hostile get hands on it.
That was just one of many sites. Youtube has a bunch of videos where Iranians do their daily chant. And yes, it is state sponsored.
Yes, these rallies do happen. And if you fly into Tehran you'll see huge murals in the airport expressing similar sentiments. But a lot of that is for show. What people really do and think behind closed doors is often another matter. The story was the same back during the Cold War in regards to ordinary Russians, East Germans, etc.
The classic example of this (from which, as usual, nobody seems to have learned any lessons) came when Khrushchev came to the UN and said "We will bury you". It was quoted as a threat, but in fact was an old Russian expression that means "I will outlive you and be present at your funeral".
He was also trying to claim that the Soviet Union was going to outproduce the capitalist west with its rational five year plans and all that. He wasn't claiming he was going to see us dead and gone.
What are they going to do, overnight it to the US by DHL?
If they were nuts enough to attempt it (I don't think they are) they'd probably go with "Scud in a Bucket." They'd mount the warhead onto a standard-issue Scud, convert a Liberian-flagged cargo ship into a floating, disguised launch platform, and park it a few hundred miles off the East Coast. Easy peasy.
They won't do it, though. They know dang well that Tehran would immediately be reduced to a sheet of glass in retaliation.
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