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Going off-grid can be like a spiritual journey, and I can understand why it's such a hot topic... both pro and against. Discussing anything "different" seems to rile folks up immeasurably. I haven't been able to figure out exactly why (I have Aspergers, so human behavior baffles me at times). Do you suppose that part of the fight is down to envy... that folks wish they did/could do it themselves? Or are they just afraid/suspicious of anything that isn't familiar?
None of the above, in my case, at any rate. Nor am I riled up, either. Mystified would be more like it. How would I be expected to be envious of the incredible amount of hard work and inconvenience involved in what you are doing? You are putting countless hours into creating the necessities of daily living, more, it seems to me, than many people put into their jobs. And the job (for me) had quite a few rewards of its own plus it allowed me to purchase all you are creating by hand and then some. More power to you (pun intended). Our goals are different, as we have previously discussed: You want to get away from other humans (not completely, I realize, but to a large degree) whereas I value interacting with them on a more or less regular basis. (For the sake of other readers, MissingAll4Seasons spelled this out for me in detail in another thread a month or two ago).
I'm just continually surprised by the amount of vehemence and bile that pops up in this Green Living forum from the opposition. I'd say that off-grid and eco-conscious topics are as inflammatory as the firearms topics on other forums. I just can't see why the opposition would even bother to read or post in a pro forum... I certainly don't seek out forums on subjects I don't agree with just to post that I don't believe in them and argue about them, so it doesn't make sense to me.
I think the strong reaction to green topics is because many of us feel powerless to stop the nonsense that the government forces down our throats in the interest of "green living." It isn't that we think that persons who choose to do so should not live without consuming copious fossil fuels (you have every right to choose that lifestyle), it is just that we don't want to have to drive a GM Volt because some bureaucrat thinks we should.
I think the strong reaction to green topics is because many of us feel powerless to stop the nonsense that the government forces down our throats in the interest of "green living." It isn't that we think that persons who choose to do so should not live without consuming copious fossil fuels (you have every right to choose that lifestyle), it is just that we don't want to have to drive a GM Volt because some bureaucrat thinks we should.
I agree that this is a problem. By the same token, we who would make "greener" choices also feel powerless to stop the nonsense of the government and big businesses... both in the green arena and the consumer arena. There are many things we wish we still had the freedom to make our own choices some bureaucrat or ad agency telling us what we can or can't. Just as many would not want to be forced to drive a GM Volt, others do not want to be forced to consume other products. In then end, most of us ("green" or not), just want the government and big business to keep their hands out of our pockets and their noses out of our lives. Not so different after all, just alternate paths.
I check them out to counter outright lies that are sometimes posted.
When outright lies are slanderous to my proffession ( dairy farmer), I will speaK up..
( or if I feel someone is throwing an insult on child bearimg )
Yes, there are sometimes outright lies and slander on both sides of any position. But one cannot emphatically state that something is an outright lie andslanderous just because they don't agree with it or their experiences differ. The best we can do is share our perspective and experiences and then others make their own choices.
There are unscrupulous people in all sectors who take advantage and cut corners at the risk of someone or something else. It is many people's argument that excessive regulation is not entirely effective in controlling or eliminating this behavior, so at best only offers people a false sense of safety... and not just the leaf-licking, posey-sniffing, tree-hugging bunny-humping Liberals, the commie-pinko Socialists, or the whacked-out, paranoid, deluded Conspiracy Theorists either.
But here is an example--------saying raw milk tastes better than store milk is a matter of opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and --taste--is a matter of opinion.
However, when posters state milk in stores comes from unhealthy milk cows shot full of antibiotics -------the line is crossed from an opinion to an ouright,slanderous lie.
When someone has no knoweledge of milk testing done at every farm every time milk is picked up, I could chalk their opinions up as just ignorance.
But a statement like that is so slanderous it has crossed the line from an opinion to a lie.
But here is an example--------saying raw milk tastes better than store milk is a matter of opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and --taste--is a matter of opinion.
However, when posters state milk in stores comes from unhealthy milk cows shot full of antibiotics -------the line is crossed from an opinion to an ouright,slanderous lie.
When someone has no knoweledge of milk testing done at every farm every time milk is picked up, I could chalk their opinions up as just ignorance.
But a statement like that is so slanderous it has crossed the line from an opinion to a lie.
I agree that there are holding periods and other limits on antibiotic use in dairy cows, much more so than beef cows... so that statement is not accurate for the most part under current regulations. There is still debate whether the hold periods and acceptable limits are enough and whether the animal really is healthy and the milk really is safe... so that poster isn't lying any more than a poster who says there are no harmful effects. Truth is, we just don't know. What that poster and yourself are both doing that is counterproductive is getting defensive and stating their position in a blatantly inflammatory manner... that's just emotional warfare and not a productive discussion. If you seem just as a loony/militant/zealot as your opponent you're blowing your own credibility with any potential converts.
Strange you have a problem when you percieve I am going to extremes but remain quite silent when someone on the other end of the spectrum is going to extremes.
I actually do call out extremist behavior no matter which side. I think I've conceded valid points to the opposition several times, and postulated compromises and hybrids to several issues. If I (or someone else) appear to be singling you out, perhaps you are just calling more attention to yourself than others.
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