I sincerely don't understand the "green" movement (environmental, electric, regulations)
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Would you support the reducing of immigration to 5,000 people a year?
That would be insane in terms of environmentalism. Immigration is positive for the globe as a whole because it reduces the global population which, as you already pointed out, is the primary problem facing the Earth's environment. In developing nations, children mean increased prosperity. In developed nations, they mean extra financial burdens. Thus lower birth rates in developed regions. Therefore, an immigrant family which moves from a developing to a developed nation will have fewer children in future generations, reducing their long-term environmental impact.
Of course, this must be coupled with reduction in consumption (compared to today's standards) by that same family now living in the developed nation, otherwise the increased footprint of those fewer people will negate the effect. So, yes, immigration and conservation go hand-in-hand. There's your answer.
In addition, improving the economy and the level of education of a developing nation will see a falling-off of the birth rate as it has in Japan, Taiwan, and Hong Kong, which are all 1st world nations now well below replacement-level birth rates.
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Would you support stripping illegals of all rights and deporting them when they are found?
Illegals have no rights to strip. Deportation would cost more (in terms of economics and the environment) as well as increasing the global population, so of course not. Documentation and fines are a much better and more "green" solution.
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(those two would significantly reduce our population growth and size in the next 5 year)
Unfortunately, we are not on Planet USA. Since this is a global problem it requires global solutions.
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Would you support mandating birth control use for welfare recipients?
If it were not an unworkable proposal, yes. I would rather support something more reasonable, like "family planning" services which encouraged contraception for welfare recipients. Mandated birth control is a little too much like the Chinese communists for my tastes. I'm surprised you support it.
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Would you support a program that gives women small amounts of cash (~$100/year) for going on long term birth control such as IUD's, depo provera or norplant?
Government subsidized birth control? I could live with that.
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Is the US overpopulated?
It doesn't matter because the world is overpopulated. However, current economic systems depend on a growing population. We will need to see a dramatic socioeconomic shift to live in a world with a stable or declining population without falling into a massive global depression ala Japan.
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Would you support a federal law mandating anyone convicted of felonies on 3 separate occasions will be put in prison for life with no chance of parole?
This has nothing to do with the environment.
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Would you support a federal law mandating anyone convicted of violent felonies on 2 separate occasions will be put in prison for life with no chance of parole?
Would you support the reducing of immigration to 5,000 people a year? NO
Would you support stripping illegals of all rights and deporting them when they are found? NO
Would you support mandating birth control use for welfare recipients? NO
Would you support a program that gives women small amounts of cash (~$100/year) for going on long term birth control such as IUD's, depo provera or norplant? MAYBE
Is the US overpopulated? DOESN'T MATTER
Would you support a federal law mandating anyone convicted of felonies on 3 separate occasions will be put in prison for life with no chance of parole? NO
Would you support a federal law mandating anyone convicted of violent felonies on 2 separate occasions will be put in prison for life with no chance of parole? NO
This is the typical answer. It disregards all science, and abides by political ideology. These people can't be educated by anyone other than their political leaders.
Fact- A person moving from a country with high infant mortality, low consumption and a lower life expectancy to America will show a net gain of numerous people to the planet, for they will consume more and live longer and are more likely to have children that survive and live longer.
Using countries like Japan as an example is a poor idea, since it has very low immigration and illegals have no rights.
Crime drives people out of cities, causing suburban sprawl. Stop the crime and people will return to the cities. Homes in Detroit can be bought for $10,000- yet the crime is so high investors ignore them.
fair points. maybe you're employer should lay you off since you have so much extra free time though. haha. just messing my friend.
i've got a clothes line and I have a gas dryer. no one is saying be 100% green, but we try to do what we can to do better. in NJ in february, clothes line doesn't help me much. haha. but yeah, some people are more worried about how their yard looks than being able to hang their sheets for a nice fresh dry.
1- Shhhh, don't tell
2-Here in Brooklyn actually I haven't hung clothes out, obviously the same weather as you. But I hang them in the spare room on the racks near the radiator, close the door and no one sees them......
Let me make this a little easier to get to the point to avoid any confusion:
Just a series of yes/no questions:
Would you support the reducing of immigration to 5,000 people a year? - yes
Would you support stripping illegals of all rights and deporting them when they are found? - this is two questions. no, and yes.
(those two would significantly reduce our population growth and size in the next 5 year) - yes it would, but it doesn't reduce the world's population. you seem obsessed with population growth...unless we prevent people around the world from having babies, people will continue to grow on this earth. that's what makes sustainability important.
Would you support mandating birth control use for welfare recipients? - i'm not for that type of government involvement. so no. welfare is a limited program anyways, you can't stay on it forever. would many republicans in the pro life community support this?
Would you support a program that gives women small amounts of cash (~$100/year) for going on long term birth control such as IUD's, depo provera or norplant? - this is probably a good idea, i can get on board with that. i don't think any "pro life" conservative would be ok with this though.
Is the US overpopulated? - i honestly don't know the answer to this question.
Would you support a federal law mandating anyone convicted of felonies on 3 separate occasions will be put in prison for life with no chance of parole? - 3 independent felonies? i'd have to look up and see if i agree with everything classified as a felony. if the crimes were severe enough, then yeah. that's fine with me.
Would you support a federal law mandating anyone convicted of violent felonies on 2 separate occasions will be put in prison for life with no chance of parole? - sure...what's a violent felony though?
There, no assumption Just simple yes/no questions.
So eco people, let's here so glorious answers (I'd say yes to them all).
(BTW I appreciate you responding Bradykp)
i'm trying to humor you. but i think you're generalizing the "green movement" into something it is not, and i don't think that's fair. there are many different types of people doing "green" things. some do it because they want to save money. some do it because they want to live simpler lives. some do it because they want to be exposed to less chemicals and toxins wherever possible. some do it because they have a political agenda and/or could profit from it.
i know plenty of people who are "green" or trying to be, and i couldn't say that 90% of the ones i know agree on many topics you have brought up. i'd be shocked if i got 50% on most of those topics to agree.
As far as anyone that claims to be concerned about the environment the only answers should be yes.
But so many eco people say no, because it means thinking outside of a particular political ideology.
we cannot control the world's population growth (without draconian laws like china). we can, however, control the use of fossil fuels vs renewable energy, and reduce consumption that is unnecessary. i don't understand how you're missing this.
i'm trying to humor you. but i think you're generalizing the "green movement" into something it is not, and i don't think that's fair.
It's a question, no generalizing. I've talked with numerous people and this is the pattern I've seen. It could be a regional thing, as most were from WA and HI. This is my chance to see if it is.
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Originally Posted by bradykp
there are many different types of people doing "green" things. some do it because they want to save money. some do it because they want to live simpler lives. some do it because they want to be exposed to less chemicals and toxins wherever possible. some do it because they have a political agenda and/or could profit from it.
Yes, I'm aware a variety of people do green things. But the ones that seem to boastfully support environmentalism often have specific anti-green views. For example, I don't consider myself a green type. I use CFL bulbs (because I hate changing bulbs) and drive a car with decent mileage and try to avoid going over 3,000 rpm. I do these things out of personal greed/convenience.
But the people that advocate fear of global warming usually answer like the last individual. In strict accordance with political ideology.
we cannot control the world's population growth (without draconian laws like china). we can, however, control the use of fossil fuels vs renewable energy, and reduce consumption that is unnecessary. i don't understand how you're missing this.
or, you're just trolling for fun. lol
Actually you're wrong.
If the US (as a leader) openly said population size is an issue and we are reducing immigration to 5,000 people a year. We are mandating birth control for women that want to take welfare from the government and offering money or college to women 18-25 that use long term birth control. And the only foreign aid that we will offer is in the form of birth control products, then it would provide an example that some other countries might follow.
Our population would be reduced, at least slowing world growth some. You can bet that some western European countries would follow our lead.
I understand consumption can be reduced, but I also understand that effort is 100% a waste if the population size isn't addressed. That is the part most green people are missing.
This is the typical answer. It disregards all science, and abides by political ideology. These people can't be educated by anyone other than their political leaders.
Fact- A person moving from a country with high infant mortality, low consumption and a lower life expectancy to America will show a net gain of numerous people to the planet, for they will consume more and live longer and are more likely to have children that survive and live longer.
Using countries like Japan as an example is a poor idea, since it has very low immigration and illegals have no rights.
Crime drives people out of cities, causing suburban sprawl. Stop the crime and people will return to the cities. Homes in Detroit can be bought for $10,000- yet the crime is so high investors ignore them.
there's been tons of stories about how investors are buying homes in detroit.
if anything in the US is overpopulated, it's the cities. but that's good and bad.
2-Here in Brooklyn actually I haven't hung clothes out, obviously the same weather as you. But I hang them in the spare room on the racks near the radiator, close the door and no one sees them......
we hang a lot of stuff on dryer racks and in the bathroom on the shower rod.
i won't tell. i promise.
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Just simple yes/no questions.