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I have a relative who has been in the grocery store business a long time, for the entire single use plastic bag cycle as a matter of fact, from their introduction in the 70s to a recent city-wide ban. I thought it might be interesting to find out what he thought about the OP's oft repeated opinion that the bag bans are all about a play by big corporations to soak the consumers by charging for bags they used to give away free.
He just laughed and laughed, and asked me to read certain parts again so he could have some more laughs. "Wow," he said, "that guy really doesn't know anything at all about it, does he?"
One of the first things he pointed out was how ludicrous it is to think the stores backed the bag bans in his city and in Hawai'i and California, for example, because the big chains actually contributed heavily to the campaigns trying to defeat the bans.
And when it came to the silly opposition to paying ten cents for a paper shopping bag, as I have done one time at Walmart, and the supposed "billions of profits" it creates, he simply snorted and suggested I check out what stores actually spend to buy paper shopping bags, and then consider whether or not it's a ripoff to charge a dime for them.
He pointed me toward Uline, a leading seller of paper bags of all description, and I looked until I found shopping bag with handles, resembling the one I got at Walmart, minus the custom printing. They come in 20 pound bundles (heavy) of 250 bags (awkward) for $69, best discounted price, plus sh&h (expensive). That cost works out to 27.6 cents each, not counting the shipping. So selling them for a dime each is how much profit, again?
By comparison, a plain, unprinted plastic disposable "t-shirt" bag, the prototypical bag subject to the bans, in a package of 500 weighing 18 pounds, ordered in quantity for best discount, is $50, or 10 cents each, roughly one third the cost of paper bags. And that's always been the appeal of plastic bags to the retailer, that they are so much cheaper than paper. And that's why they hate to have to give them up.
And he said I should remind everyone how much the public hated plastic bags when they were first introduced, and how much effort went into convincing the public to switch. But I think I'll save that story for another day.
10 cent paper shopping bags are a ripoff? Bwahahahahahahahaha.
By comparison, a plain, unprinted plastic disposable "t-shirt" bag, the prototypical bag subject to the bans, in a package of 500 weighing 18 pounds, ordered in quantity for best discount, is $50, or 10 cents each, roughly one third the cost of paper bags. And that's always been the appeal of plastic bags to the retailer, that they are so much cheaper than paper. And that's why they hate to have to give them up.
And he said I should remind everyone how much the public hated plastic bags when they were first introduced, and how much effort went into convincing the public to switch. But I think I'll save that story for another day.
10 cent paper shopping bags are a ripoff? Bwahahahahahahahaha.
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I got a box of 1000 for $22 on Amazon. I keep it in the truck under the seat for those times I venture in Austin (they banned the bags as well).
I got a box of 1000 for $22 on Amazon. I keep it in the truck under the seat for those times I venture in Austin (they banned the bags as well).
Exactly and why any plastic bag ban wasn't thought through. That doesn't matter though because it makes some people feel good and others enriched.
The same people that support the plastic bag ban also buy water in plastic bottles, to put into their environment friendly bags no doubt. They buy their meat wrapped in plastic. Much of what they buy is wrapped in plastic. No, not everyone but most of everyone.
I have also worked with both special needs children and MR/DD adults in schools, Day Hab, Group Homes. Disposable diapers to be changed either on a cot, or if they could stand up, in a classroom bathroom. We brought in those supermarket plastic bags for their diapers to be put in while we changed them. CDC rules. The diapers could not be put on the floor or in with the regular trash. They had to be bagged immediately, along with our disposable plastic gloves, and then bagged in a separate container with a plastic liner marked "Bio Waste". They could not be just thrown in a regular trash. A small classroom bathroom with a container could not fit, besides the contamination problems. Besides which, putting diapers in there would also be against the law. If these kids, even those not special needs kids but very young, had "accidents" we would use these plastic supermarket bags, to bag up their soiled clothing to send home. Again, CDC Health rules. The school district complained about how many disposable plastic GLOVES we went through. Ask them to BUY additional bags for soiled diapers and clothes? LOT of plastic being used for this alone. What is your solution for this plastic? Paper bags? Cloth diapers and soiled clothing being washed in schools, so no need for plastic bags?
I have also worked with both special needs children and MR/DD adults in schools, Day Hab, Group Homes. Disposable diapers to be changed either on a cot, or if they could stand up, in a classroom bathroom. We brought in those supermarket plastic bags for their diapers to be put in while we changed them. CDC rules. The diapers could not be put on the floor or in with the regular trash. They had to be bagged immediately, along with our disposable plastic gloves, and then bagged in a separate container with a plastic liner marked "Bio Waste". They could not be just thrown in a regular trash. A small classroom bathroom with a container could not fit, besides the contamination problems. Besides which, putting diapers in there would also be against the law. If these kids, even those not special needs kids but very young, had "accidents" we would use these plastic supermarket bags, to bag up their soiled clothing to send home. Again, CDC Health rules. The school district complained about how many disposable plastic GLOVES we went through. Ask them to BUY additional bags for soiled diapers and clothes? LOT of plastic being used for this alone. What is your solution for this plastic? Paper bags? Cloth diapers and soiled clothing being washed in schools, so no need for plastic bags?
You would have to use leak-proof plastic bags. Supermarket bags are not leak-proof.
Wash hands after using the toilet, after helping a child use the toilet, after diapering a child, and before handling or eating food. Note: Where staffing permits, people who change diapers should not prepare or serve food.
Reinforce good diapering practices.
Separate diaper-changing areas from children’s play and food preparation areas.
Use disposable gloves and change them after each diaper change.
Use disposable paper over diaper-changing surfaces and change it after each diaper change.
Ensure children wear clothing over their diapers to reduce the opportunity for leakage.
Wash hands: both yours and the child’s after each diaper change.
Disinfect surfaces and objects, including but not limited to bathrooms, diaper-changing areas, food-preparation areas, tabletops, high chairs, and toys.
Notify the state or local health department about an excessive level of diarrhea or any Crypto cases in the child-care facility. Crypto is a nationally reportable disease.
Another document (PDF) details disinfection chemical and practices. No mention of plastic bags in this one, either.
Perhaps you were thinking of OSHA or local health department guidelines? Still, it's unlikely that they would have included leaky supermarket bags for biohazardous materials.
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Another document (PDF) details disinfection chemical and practices. No mention of plastic bags in this one, either.
Perhaps you were thinking of OSHA or local health department guidelines? Still, it's unlikely that they would have included leaky supermarket bags for biohazardous materials.
Missed something? The school district, not Non-Profit Agencies for MR/DD, complained about spending $$$$ to buy us just disposable gloves. They were going to BUY us leak proof plastic bags to carry diapers or vomit to that plastic lined can? We put these items in supermarket plactic bags before it went into plastic lined containers. Put that diaper on the floor and just carry that diaper and the child, or adult to where the container was? As I said, many a Pre-k toilet trained child had an "accident" and their clothes had to be baged up to send home. Bag up in WHAT? Who supplies those plastic bags? Parents? When Swine Flu hit a few years ago and they wanted us to clean up vomit, they didn't want to supply our classrooms with the SUPPLIES to do so. Gloves, plastic bags, and even BLEACH to clean it up. It is all about MONEY. When I worked in Non-Profit Agencies, all these supplies were given, no questions asked.
The fact still remains it is all disposable PLASTIC. Recycle plastic used for human waste products? Answer that.
Missed something? The school district, not Non-Profit Agencies for MR/DD, complained about spending $$$$ to buy us just disposable gloves. They were going to BUY us leak proof plastic bags to carry diapers or vomit to that plastic lined can? We put these items in supermarket plactic bags before it went into plastic lined containers. Put that diaper on the floor and just carry that diaper and the child, or adult to where the container was? As I said, many a Pre-k toilet trained child had an "accident" and their clothes had to be baged up to send home. Bag up in WHAT? Who supplies those plastic bags? Parents? When Swine Flu hit a few years ago and they wanted us to clean up vomit, they didn't want to supply our classrooms with the SUPPLIES to do so. Gloves, plastic bags, and even BLEACH to clean it up. It is all about MONEY. When I worked in Non-Profit Agencies, all these supplies were given, no questions asked.
The fact still remains it is all disposable PLASTIC. Recycle plastic used for human waste products? Answer that.
I'm sorry, answer what? You are the one who claimed "CDC rules". I posted CDC rules for containment, which include using disinfectants on floors and surfaces where any contamination occurred. No mention was made regarding recycling plastics used for human waste. It should be obvious that it was be difficult-to-impossible to recycle biohazard containers, including plastic bags full of waste.
If your school district didn't want to supply proper materials, that's not to say that a freebie supermarket bag is good enough to do the job. Just ask all those people in the Ebola threads.
I have also worked with both special needs children and MR/DD adults in schools, Day Hab, Group Homes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeraldmaiden
You would have to use leak-proof plastic bags. Supermarket bags are not leak-proof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
Missed something? The school district, not Non-Profit Agencies for MR/DD, complained about spending $$$$ to buy us just disposable gloves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeraldmaiden
I'm sorry, answer what? You are the one who claimed "CDC rules".
Sorry, but these are all COMPLETELY off topic to the subject of banning retail stores from providing single-use plastic shopping bags. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
Sorry, but these are all COMPLETELY off topic to the subject of banning retail stores from providing single-use plastic shopping bags. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
True.
On topic, I don't mind the banning of flimsy single use plastic bags. Some plastics will be unavoidable, but those are not. We tend to bring our own, and when we forget, we use the supermarket bags for kitty litter. After we check them for holes, of course, since we don't like dribbling used litter all over the place.
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