Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-29-2014, 06:09 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,989,918 times
Reputation: 3572

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Sure. That must be it.

In other words, you never did look at where most of the World's Population is (between 30 N and 30 S) >>>

radicalcartography

and the limited effect that has on Seasonal shifts in Daylight >>>

Hours of daylight vs latitude vs day of year

because ALL world must be like DC . . . at about 40 N? (38.8)

Sit back and think about this a minute.

DC is NOT the center of the known world, for most of the world, anymore than Greenwich/London was by setting the 0 Longitude Line there.
Phil, just stop. You're embarrassing your family.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-29-2014, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
Reputation: 24863
There is no way any economy could be 100% solar or 100% anything else. There will always be a need for a mix of energy sources from hydroelectric through solar and wind to a nuclear fission based system with full fuel breeding and recycle. All of these will require large scale energy storage to level the load/generation differences over time. Fortunately such systems already exist and can operate efficiently over a wide range of sizes. This technology is called hydraulic pumped storage and can be build anywhere there is a small amount of water and a difference in elevation.

Only foolish purists would insist on a solar only energy system. Unfortunately there are way too many of them around.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2014, 12:15 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,989,918 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
There is no way any economy could be 100% solar or 100% anything else. There will always be a need for a mix of energy sources from hydroelectric through solar and wind to a nuclear fission based system with full fuel breeding and recycle. All of these will require large scale energy storage to level the load/generation differences over time. Fortunately such systems already exist and can operate efficiently over a wide range of sizes. This technology is called hydraulic pumped storage and can be build anywhere there is a small amount of water and a difference in elevation.

Only foolish purists would insist on a solar only energy system. Unfortunately there are way too many of them around.
There are very few site that are appropriate for pumped storage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2014, 01:02 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,039,086 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
We have no need to "Store" Sunlight, nor the energy from it. We get a new batch every day, and trying to store it is both lossy and expensive.
How much solar energy is hitting the earth is irrelevant if you can't acquire and store than energy for practical use.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2014, 09:21 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,544,169 times
Reputation: 4949
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
How much solar energy is hitting the earth is irrelevant if you can't acquire and store than energy for practical use.
Dunno if you know anyone with Grid Tied Solar? Many locales use something called Net Metering.

That allows folks that produce "surplus" Solar to sort of "store" or bank Energy on the Grid as their meter turns backwards during the day, and then they can use power for some small loads overnight -- such as maybe refrigerators, nightlights, etc.

It is really more of a Time of Use Balance. Electricity is in Higher Demand during the day (when most folks are awake, and when Solar Produces), and is Very Surplus Overnight -- when most folks are asleep and the only Generations Plants running are the Olde Skool Nukes and Coal -- neither of which tend to ramp up or down very well.

The shift to daytime demand and less overnight is even going more-so with the advent of LED and High Efficiency Small Tube Florescent.

So riddle me this? IF Electricity is valuable during the Day -- when Solar tends to make Electricity, and Cheap, Surplus (and even "Free" in some areas) during the Night . . . WHY IN THE WORLD would you want to take the production from the Day (when it is Salable and Valuable) to "store" it and use it during the Night -- when it is not only not needed, but is worthless?

Really, WHY would you do that?

Electricity really is so surplus in some areas it has a Negative worth overnight. Some Wind operations make so much Surplus overnight, they have to pay the Grid Operators to take it.

So other than losing around 20% or more of the Energy in the Storage Process, (and paying more for the Storage System than the Solar Equipment, itself) . . . . what would be the benefit of Storing it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2014, 09:24 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,544,169 times
Reputation: 4949
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post

Only foolish purists would insist on a solar only energy system. Unfortunately there are way too many of them around.
Of course not. I took the OP as more of a thought experiment. Not some sort of Client Specifications for a Global Engineering Project.

Some what along the lines of this -- for some serious creativity >>>

Japan Wants to Ring the Moon With Solar Panels to Power the Earth

Turning the Moon into a Giant Space Solar Power Hub : Discovery News

Yunno taking this a bit further -- It was tied things to a Very Major -- or for even Many -- a SOLE Source -- like the Internal Combustion Engine -- that brought about the "Energy Crisis" to start with.

Diversity of Sources and Methods tends to be a Good Thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2014, 09:26 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,544,169 times
Reputation: 4949
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Phil, just stop. You're embarrassing your family.
hahahha ahhh.

That is what I thought.

So just how much IS the Winter Drop-off between 20 N and 20 S?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2014, 10:10 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,039,086 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Dunno if you know anyone with Grid Tied Solar? Many locales use something called Net Metering.
Now it's not 100% solar and you need too purchase and maintain both a solar and fossil fuel generation system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2014, 10:20 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,544,169 times
Reputation: 4949
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Now it's not 100% solar and you need too purchase two systems.
Some folks do Net Metering and get 110% Solar (make more than they use) . . . .

Is this some Purity Test? Even Henry Ford used horses to build his first cars.

Real world works on "Successive Approximation."

Same way bracketing fire from Artillery works, if you are familiar?

You get close, then adjust closer, until you hit what you want.

You do not have to hit the target perfect to start with.

If it were an 80 year build out -- all the existing plants would be replaced two times over in that time span.

=======

And what in the World are you talking about "purchasing two systems?" The existing system -- Coal / Nuke / Natural Gas fired Grid -- that one already exists, and most of US are already on it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2014, 10:27 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,039,086 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post

You get close, then adjust closer, until you hit what you want.
How do you hit your target of peak demand in the winter long after the sun has gone down?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top