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Location: Big Island of Hawaii & HOT BuOYS Sailing Vessel
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Often we kid ourselves that what we do is green.
Frequently small gardens are way over fertilized or chemicals in the garage heavily applied. A farmer with a very big field thinks closely about chemical use because it is expensive and his job.
Do we factor in tons of batteries when saying solar is good?
One way I went green is to stop using a fridge. My solar batteries last far longer and are smaller.
Giving up ice cream and frozen pizza saves energy, batteries for a much smaller solar/wind system, and weight!
Other examples where living green is a little brown on the edges?
I am not sure the basis for your statement, as we only use Natural fertilizers and know many people that do the same. I am not debating just showing another view. I think any technology has to look at the total life cycle and embodied energy. For instance we are planning a new home. It will be built to high efficiency using as many recycled materials as possible. But although we had anticipated going Net Zero energy, we found that given a very low utility rate, and very high percentage of renewable energy sources from our local electric coop, that the embodied energy to build and install a solar or wind system far exceeded the effect of just using grid energy.
Frequently small gardens are way over fertilized or chemicals in the garage heavily applied. A farmer with a very big field thinks closely about chemical use because it is expensive and his job.
Do we factor in tons of batteries when saying solar is good?
One way I went green is to stop using a fridge. My solar batteries last far longer and are smaller.
Giving up ice cream and frozen pizza saves energy, batteries for a much smaller solar/wind system, and weight!
Other examples where living green is a little brown on the edges?
You've been paying attention in class and doing work outside of the prescribed reading list! No fair! All of the dullards will have a hard time keeping up.
FWIW, Bluebell just threw out TONS of ice cream...
Today's modern refrigerators use about 500-750 kwh/year of electricity. One gallon of gas contains 33.70 kWh of energy.. so running 1 refrigerator for a year would take about the same energy as driving a 25MPG vehicle about 370-550 miles. The biggest thing people can do to be more 'green' is commute shorter distances to work.
Cars don't necessarily pollute a lot, they just use a lot of energy... wealthy people who use private jets use orders of magnitude more energy than a person driving a car... so preaching 'green' while using private jets is kind of being a hypocrite.
On the other hand, does it really matter if we are using the energy or not? We are paying for it, and it appears to be abundant and widely available.. more important is not polluting by using coal, or by using lots of yard equipment and other devices without pollution controls on them. We're doing a good job in the US... China not so much...
Wind power is a good example. The towers make noise and can be unsightly. God knows how many birds they kill. And they require lots of energy storage.
And the source of that information? The towers make almost no noise, I have been to them, just a gentle swoosh as the blade passes. Many don't think they are unsightly, there are thousands in our area.
There are no dead birds scattered around the towers. And they take ZERO storage.
Wind power is a good example. The towers make noise and can be unsightly. God knows how many birds they kill. And they require lots of energy storage.
There's tons of wind power around here. No they don't make lots of noise in fact they hardly make any noise.. buy and ship me a sound decibel meter and I'll drive out and take some measurements of the decibel level standing right next to one.... and nobody around here considers them unsightly or cares that they are around. As for the birds the surviving members of the species will learn not to hit them as part of evolution. They have a fairly long payoff time but really they produce energy directly from the wind. Assuming they can build them without government subsidies I have no problem with them.
They don't get installed near people's houses but rather out in the country on farm fields in the higher elevation spots of the buffalo ridge/coteau des prairies.
I used to be against ethanol in fuel but increased yields per acre and more efficient production technology have made it viable to use as well. Same thing with wind energy. If there's a way to do it profitably it will get done.. all your complaining about them being unsightly will fall on deaf ears. This is one case where I think industry/government know better than people who complain about birds and aesthetics. Likewise I held my anti-ethanol viewpoints for quite a while but latest research shows the tech improvements...
That photo of the coal plant is PAINFULLY photoshopped, and just one of the way that subliminal lies are made in the name of "green." Note that the big dark cloud coming out of the cooling tower and the two stacks in the front are the "evil" pouring out...
...except that cooling towers only release steam or water vapor - NOT carbon or smoke in any way shape or form. Notice also how the blue of the sky in that photograph compares to the blue of the sky in the windmill photo, as if to blame the coal plant for the surrounding pollution of the area. For all we know, that pollution could come from the making of windmills.
The sound chart is ALSO deceptive. dB measurement is a logarithmic scale, where sound pressure DOUBLES with increases instead of being linear. It also skirts the point that if you are in a forest hearing leaves falling, the swoosh of a wind turbine is going to have a much larger sensory impact than industrial noise in a city where you are playing loud stereo music. Note that is also does NOT show the sound impact of a coal fired plant, which at the perimeter fence is nearly silent.
AND... There is a world of difference between a wind farm on a flat field with no habitation for miles, and one on the ridgetops of mountains in Vermont, where the value of the scenery is the largest commodity the state has to sell.
The sound of the turbine will decrease relative to your distance from it. It's going to take unusual circumstances for a person to be annoyed by the sound of one.. for one thing if they are over the ocean you'll never hear the turbine over the sound of the waves and water.
Out here they are not located close enough to residential neighborhoods for anyone to care, and even if I decided to stop my car on a rural road near Lake Benton, MN and relax right next to one I'd barely notice the sound over any trees or grass/crops rustling in the wind. Most of the time you're going to be too far away to even hear them over the ambient noise of the wind blowing.
Please provide examples of wind generators located in areas where people would care about the noise. I'm not advocating people be allowed to place them in their yards in the middle of town like roof antennas or anything. They get located on farmland around here... in the higher elevation areas in very unpopulated areas. People who've never driven over 'flyover' country and are used to their heavily populated coastal areas might not realize just how desolate it is out here. It's one reason the speed limits are 80mph.
You can see dozens of them when you are in Lake Benton, MN and I assure you none of them are close enough to make any noise at all and they don't detract from the 'scenery'... beyond the farmer who's land they are located on (who gets money simply having them there btw) nobody will hear them, or cares around here about them.
You want to talk about annoying noise? Harley Davidsons fit with exhausts you can hear from 1/2 to 1 mile away.. that would be something I would classify as "annoying" ... not these....
Last edited by sholomar; 05-08-2015 at 11:02 AM..
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