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Death trap...amateurs...bootlegged...fire...teenage daughters...fire department...girls screaming...kids were dead...building codes...emergency egress...fire...safe living place.
This is either rehearsed or you are one talented writer.
Corvallis, Oregon, about 2003. It happened just as I described it.
Makes no sense to me, paying $3× for a complex piece of technological machinery (produced and maintained by the great outside) to save $1× on electrical bills. Delusions don't get much stronger than that. You are in the "grid" one way or another, there are no ways you could be outside of the grid.
Makes no sense to me, paying $3× for a complex piece of technological machinery (produced and maintained by the great outside) to save $1× on electrical bills. Delusions don't get much stronger than that. You are in the "grid" one way or another, there are no ways you could be outside of the grid.
Yeah...you can use batteries and charge them off of solar power...
Makes no sense to me, paying $3× for a complex piece of technological machinery (produced and maintained by the great outside) to save $1× on electrical bills. Delusions don't get much stronger than that. You are in the "grid" one way or another, there are no ways you could be outside of the grid.
Plenty of us live in homes that are not connected to Utility Company power grids.
Every penny I spent on my solar power system will come back to me in depreciation write-offs over a period of 7 years.
So in 7 years every dollar spent is recovered, plus you never have an electric bill, ever.
We did that in Kauai which was an ideal environment since was warm always and rained often so things would grow. We had a well, septic tank, solar power, and a propane tank. There was also a stream running through our property which was nice. We had 3.5 acres. Our neighbors were way more off the grid and lived in a house with screened windows but no actual glass. They also had an old bus they used. We built a little house to code but it's not necessary as long as it's not visible.
I think Hawaii is ideal since it doesn't get cold and if you pick the right location, it doesn't get too warm since there's the trade winds. It also rains often so you can grow food quickly and use a water Catchment system. There's good hunting too if you eat deer or pork. And fishing of course.
It's not difficult to buy a piece of land and build a little guest house or farm house. Definitely possible. Good luck!
Plenty of us live in homes that are not connected to Utility Company power grids.
Every penny I spent on my solar power system will come back to me in depreciation write-offs over a period of 7 years.
So in 7 years every dollar spent is recovered, plus you never have an electric bill, ever.
Delusions?
I pay $60/monthly bill on average, let's say $1000/year, $30,000 in 30 years, basic home solar system costs $35,000 or so. It makes no financial sense to me. But I didn't call financial aspect of it "delusion", it's just an expensive way to power your home for most of us. Delusion is to consider home solar as a part of some sort escapism scheme. Both solar and electrical grid are complex technological products, they both need the great outside to run, if the things will go so bad that electrical grid can no longer function, you solar escape will not last that much longer because you are in the technological grid one way or another.
You sound like somebody who can not let go. As does your username.
You can always try to redefine accepted definitions of course. But those who have their own well, septic system, and electrical power are off the grid according to any normal definition.
Being off the grid doesn't matter so much as having a facsimile of quiet and privacy with a few more rights thrown in. We have raised a generation of people who think that government has rightfully assumed the responsibilities of parents. Over controlling and insecure parents at that.
Your utility bills are very small. Those bills can vary considerably from region to region.
Solar systems need not costs anything close to $35,000. I have a good system for closer to $18,000 that I did myself with a tremendous amount of study and time. However....people tend to overlook the maintenance costs of replacing expensive batteries and periodic replacement of the electronics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
I pay $60/monthly bill on average, let's say $1000/year, $30,000 in 30 years, basic home solar system costs $35,000 or so. It makes no financial sense to me. But I didn't call financial aspect of it "delusion", it's just an expensive way to power your home for most of us. Delusion is to consider home solar as a part of some sort escapism scheme. Both solar and electrical grid are complex technological products, they both need the great outside to run, if the things will go so bad that electrical grid can no longer function, you solar escape will not last that much longer because you are in the technological grid one way or another.
I pay $60/monthly bill on average, let's say $1000/year, $30,000 in 30 years, basic home solar system costs $35,000 or so. It makes no financial sense to me. But I didn't call financial aspect of it "delusion", it's just an expensive way to power your home for most of us. Delusion is to consider home solar as a part of some sort escapism scheme. Both solar and electrical grid are complex technological products, they both need the great outside to run, if the things will go so bad that electrical grid can no longer function, you solar escape will not last that much longer because you are in the technological grid one way or another.
Okay I can see your point.
Nothing you do will provide power forever.
We have been paying around $150/month for grid power. In our town grid power normally goes down once or twice a month, for 1 to 4 hours each time. Plus we expect the grid to go down for a week at least once a year. So every home in our town has at least one generator.
We would expect to pay roughly $1800/year, $54,000 in 30 years. We have lived here for 10 years so far, and to date we have not experienced any 30-day month with continuous grid power all month long, thus far.
Our off-grid solar power system cost us $20,000. Grid-tied net-metering systems are much more expensive here. Our system is 'grid-assisted' and includes a large battery bank, it was much less expensive than a net-metering system would have been.
When we were shopping for land to buy, most parcels we looked at were remote and would have cost over $20,000 to bring grid power onto site. Where we finally decided to buy, is more 'in-town', and along a section of paved road that has grid power at the pavement.
I am sure that our solar power system will produce less power after 30 years and it may need to be replaced eventually. One of our neighbors has used his solar power system since the 1980s without any upgrades, yet.
... You can always try to redefine accepted definitions of course. But those who have their own well, septic system, and electrical power are off the grid according to any normal definition.
Agreed.
My Dw being an accountant looks at the world through a unique version of reality.
Most homes in our area have two home generators. A large unit and a small unit. On days when the grid is down, these homes run a small generator that 'sips' fuel, to power lighting and PC, for maybe 8 hours a day. Then for one hour a day they fire-up the big generator to run the well pump and all the freon compressors [refrigerator and chest freezers]. During that one hour, they flush toilets, take showers, do the daily dishes, water livestock, all the things that consume lots of power.
Say a gallon of fuel per day for the small unit to run 8 hours, and one gallon of fuel per day for the large unit to run. This is their general routine, on days when the grid is down.
Paying for grid power plus generator fuel is a large monthly expense. You can shift some of this around, do more on propane, or on kerosene, [to avoid the road taxes on gasoline] but no matter how you try to shift it, you are still dependent on outside sources of energy to power your home. Thus every month you have to make a trip into the city to get the fuel, and your money is flowing out away from you.
Going to solar, wind, hydro, allows us to pay more up-front, in the hope that our monthly expenses would drop a great deal afterward. When you complete the normal depreciation of the expenses, the ROI is fairly rapid. So it is a very inexpensive source of electricity.
Quote:
... Being off the grid doesn't matter so much as having a facsimile of quiet and privacy with a few more rights thrown in. We have raised a generation of people who think that government has rightfully assumed the responsibilities of parents. Over controlling and insecure parents at that.
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