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They are not largely grass fed, and if we were to return to feeding all of our cattle grass it would take the combined land mass of the ENTIRE North American continent just to feed the US alone, which is obviously impossible. If we all switch to a vegan or vegetarian diet we'd drastically slow down global warming, open up a huge amount of resources, including more food and water, and save many many species of wildlife.
Again, I'm very surprised at the cognitive dissonance here. You seem to be looking over the factual evidence to prove it's environmentally friendly to eat meat. It's not. At all.
I could tell you some stories about dodging the free ranging, half-wild cattle in the West while fighting wildfires but I suppose you just wouldn't believe it. We were real glad this summer in Wyoming when the ranchers showed up and started rounding the cattle up so we were a bit safer.
All land is not equal. Vegetables don't grow everywhere. If we switch to a vegetarian diet we need to concentrate all food production into areas where those crops grow. That largely limits things to the east and a few areas of the west where drought will not be an issue (on the NW coast).There won't be any potentially usable land left in the East not cleared of forest or meadow and converted to intensive agriculture. It will be a return to the 19th century when the East was largely cleared and bears, moose, elk, beavers, deer, fishers, martens, and countless other species of wildlife were scarce or non-existent. I really don't think you're thinking through the consequences of what you're advocating. Currently we can have a heavily forested northeast and a relative abundance of wildlife in the east because our food production is spread out over a vast area. Take away the western meat production and we will need to take away the wilderness that has recovered. Combine that with future shortages of petroleum making the current high yields of crops impossible and you're setting us and the environment up for disaster.
Moreover, you're fighting thousands of years of evolution here. We evolved to be omnivores in order to be better able to survive. You'd be putting all our eggs in one basket, so to speak, for food.
I could tell you some stories about dodging the free ranging, half-wild cattle in the West while fighting wildfires but I suppose you just wouldn't believe it. We were real glad this summer in Wyoming when the ranchers showed up and started rounding the cattle up so we were a bit safer.
All land is not equal. Vegetables don't grow everywhere. If we switch to a vegetarian diet we need to concentrate all food production into areas where those crops grow. That largely limits things to the east and a few areas of the west where drought will not be an issue (on the NW coast).There won't be any potentially usable land left in the East not cleared of forest or meadow and converted to intensive agriculture. It will be a return to the 19th century when the East was largely cleared and bears, moose, elk, beavers, deer, fishers, martens, and countless other species of wildlife were scarce or non-existent. I really don't think you're thinking through the consequences of what you're advocating. Currently we can have a heavily forested northeast and a relative abundance of wildlife in the east because our food production is spread out over a vast area. Take away the western meat production and we will need to take away the wilderness that has recovered. Combine that with future shortages of petroleum making the current high yields of crops impossible and you're setting us and the environment up for disaster.
Moreover, you're fighting thousands of years of evolution here. We evolved to be omnivores in order to be better able to survive. You'd be putting all our eggs in one basket, so to speak, for food.
Oh boy, so much untruth here.
I didn't say there aren't grass-fed cattle at all. I said the majority are in factory farms AND we don't have enough space to raise grass-fed cattle to feed everyone (infact grass-fed cattle is more resource intensive than factory farms due to land consumption).
You're ignoring that most of our crops go to cattle. Completely ignoring we could feed ourselves off the food/land we use for cattle's food. Also ignoring the fact that wildlife is destroyed and landscapes are cleared for cattle. Animal agriculture is extremely destructive to the environment.
We evolved to be ominorves when we lived in the wild and food was scarce. That is not the case anymore and plant based diets are healthier in nearly all aspects than those based off meat and dairy.
Curious, did you check out any of the information I linked to regarding the facts of animal agricultures impact on the environment? I mean did you look at any of it?
"“If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million,” reports ecologist David Pimentel of Cornell University’s College of Agriculture and Life Sciences. He adds that the seven billion livestock in the U.S. consume five times as much grain as is consumed directly by the entire U.S. population."
I'm not a vegan, but I have seen a few fascinating documentaries that made me think of things in a different way. I believe that growing vegetables only would be a very forced and unnatural environment. It is not the way nature intended.
In one documentary, brothers come back to an abandoned family farm. They decided to grow organic vegetables and herbs for local sale. Little by little, they discovered the natural balance that livestock provided in the farming process. I can't remember exactly how it went, but chickens kept the bugs at bay, and goats kept the weeds under control, and then pigs did something and cows did something, until a perfect balance was achieved, in which there was little waste, and natural fertilizer, etc. They grew the veggies, and made goat cheese, and sold the meat, which was butchered humanely.
I'm not a vegan, but I have seen a few fascinating documentaries that made me think of things in a different way. I believe that growing vegetables only would be a very forced and unnatural environment. It is not the way nature intended.
In one documentary, brothers come back to an abandoned family farm. They decided to grow organic vegetables and herbs for local sale. Little by little, they discovered the natural balance that livestock provided in the farming process. I can't remember exactly how it went, but chickens kept the bugs at bay, and goats kept the weeds under control, and then pigs did something and cows did something, until a perfect balance was achieved, in which there was little waste, and natural fertilizer, etc. They grew the veggies, and made goat cheese, and sold the meat, which was butchered humanely.
Unfortunately there are too many humans and not enough land to farm this way. The only way to sustainably feed the growing human population is by everyone reducing their meat and dairy intake and largely switching to plant based. We are going to run out of food and resources if we stick to the current system.
Unfortunately there are too many humans and not enough land to farm this way. The only way to sustainably feed the growing human population is by everyone reducing their meat and dairy intake and largely switching to plant based. We are going to run out of food and resources if we stick to the current system.
It may not be the most affordable way to raise food, but there is way more than enough land and water to do so. It is labor intensive, but possible.
It may not be the most affordable way to raise food, but there is way more than enough land and water to do so. It is labor intensive, but possible.
Absolutely not. As stated above you would need to convert the entire North American continent to grassland just to feed the USA on grass fed cattle alone. There is no where near enough land for everyone to homestead. Not even close. Imagine if everyone in NYC moved and tried to get their own spot in the US to homestead and raise their own animals. It's not possible and I'm not sure why this isn't obvious. Again, read sourced materials above.
By the way, I WISH it was possible. I did not give up meat because I dislike it, but strictly due to environmental reasons.
I didn't say there aren't grass-fed cattle at all. I said the majority are in factory farms AND we don't have enough space to raise grass-fed cattle to feed everyone (infact grass-fed cattle is more resource intensive than factory farms due to land consumption).
If we replace the cattle with bison in the plains, there'd be no input needed. They are perfectly adapted to the natural environment there. If we go with your vegetarian plan, we wouldn't be getting any food from areas that are perfectly suited for producing meat. That doesn't really make any sense to do. Sure everyone won't be eating a 16 ounce grass fed steak every night but to say the answer to our problems is to eliminate meat is absurd. A vast swath of the United States is perfect for raising meat and little else.
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You're ignoring that most of our crops go to cattle. Completely ignoring we could feed ourselves off the food/land we use for cattle's food. Also ignoring the fact that wildlife is destroyed and landscapes are cleared for cattle. Animal agriculture is extremely destructive to the environment.
Grains do not constitute a very healthy diet. Much of that corn raised for livestock is unfit for human consumption. Moreover, it's not sustainable. The yields of grain depend on heavy inputs of nutrients from chemical fertilizers, which we rely on petroleum to produce. What is your plan for producing vegetables when the chemicals are no longer a practical option? Anyone who has raised corn knows it's one of the most destructive crops for the soil and requires annual soil amendments. Chemicals are cheap now but to replace chemicals would require a lot more manure.
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We evolved to be ominorves when we lived in the wild and food was scarce. That is not the case anymore and plant based diets are healthier in nearly all aspects than those based off meat and dairy.
Absolutely not. As stated above you would need to convert the entire North American continent to grassland just to feed the USA on grass fed cattle alone. There is no where near enough land for everyone to homestead. Not even close. Imagine if everyone in NYC moved and tried to get their own spot in the US to homestead and raise their own animals. It's not possible and I'm not sure why this isn't obvious. Again, read sourced materials above.
By the way, I WISH it was possible. I did not give up meat because I dislike it, but strictly due to environmental reasons.
Well you can't solve problems by treating the symptoms and ignoring the underlying cause. Our real sustainability problem is our population. Changing our diets will accomplish nothing.
Well you can't solve problems by treating the symptoms and ignoring the underlying cause. Our real sustainability problem is our population. Changing our diets will accomplish nothing.
I'm not going to continue to waste anyone's time arguing about the health downsides to meat, or try to once again explain to you the mathematics surrounding how much grain and land is used to feed cattle. I have posted numerous reputable sources saying such and you continue to ignore it. I will say that last sentence is absolutely positively false. You are saying that the studies done by scientists, the UN, environmental organizations etc are all false. It's really ridiculous how far some of you go to blind yourself to information right in front of you.
If you recycle, conserve water, drive a hybrid, etc but don't reduce your meat and dairy intake or at least acknowledge doing so drastically reduces your environmental footprint, you're being incredibly hypocritical and are not at all an environmentalist. I'm beginning to think those arguing with me here on the subject are not, and perhaps wandered in here from another forum.
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