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Old 03-27-2008, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 10,417,852 times
Reputation: 973

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
Sorry. I big long paper that is controlled in its whole process of writing, editing, and revisions by government and politicians is the last thing I care to look at for truth. Besides, the next IPCC report will omit a few things and totally change a few things to cover up errors from the previous report.

I don't listen to right wing radio, and I don't even have television reception anymore at all because I stopped watching tv a while back. I do my part to help keep the air clean and cut down on waste. But I really don't care if the earth heats up a little. Its is a MUCH better alternative to it cooling.
I completly agree!!

We do need to be good stuards of our earth, but trying to use "global warming" as a way to tax the world is going overboard.

I use green products simply because I like a clean place to live.
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Old 04-30-2008, 08:47 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,157,635 times
Reputation: 46685
Don't expect them to watch this. What's more, don't expect them to listen to the 1,200 climate scientists who take serious issue with the Global Warming hysteria. The IPCC findings were written by policy wonks, not scientists, and a large percentage of the scientists who were involved claim that their findings and recommendations were completely ignored or amended beyond recognition.
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Old 04-30-2008, 09:35 AM
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley, Oregon
7,785 posts, read 18,828,163 times
Reputation: 10783
That must be Durkin's program.

Debunked here:

In the Green: Deconstructing Channel 4's Great Global Warming Swindle (broken link)
The Great Global Warming Swindle » Celsias
Swindlers « Fermi Paradox
Stoat: The great global warming swindle!
RealClimate
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:10 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,207,534 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal View Post
That must be Durkin's program.

Debunked here:

In the Green: Deconstructing Channel 4's Great Global Warming Swindle (broken link)
The Great Global Warming Swindle » Celsias
Swindlers « Fermi Paradox
Stoat: The great global warming swindle!
RealClimate

i've read this before and would hardly consider it a debunking! whether you like it or not there will always be 2 sides to this story. i'm actually quite pro environment i just happen to believe that the movement should be focussing all its collective effort on deforestation, over-fishing, urban sprawl, nuclear, overpopulation, genetically modified and consumption where there is irrefutable evidence of our destruction.
with regards to SUV's, cheap flights, and general energy squandering i think i would be wise to point in the direction of "peak oil"
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:16 AM
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley, Oregon
7,785 posts, read 18,828,163 times
Reputation: 10783
Quote:
Originally Posted by 58robbo View Post
i've read this before and would hardly consider it a debunking! whether you like it or not there will always be 2 sides to this story. i'm actually quite pro environment i just happen to believe that the movement should be focussing all its collective effort on deforestation, over-fishing, urban sprawl, nuclear, overpopulation, genetically modified and consumption where there is irrefutable evidence of our destruction.
with regards to SUV's, cheap flights, and general energy squandering i think i would be wise to point in the direction of peak oil
The funny thing about peak oil is how little press it gets, even though most of the oil companies (with the exception of Exxon) give a nod to it these days (after putting up lots and lots and lots of money to refute it earlier). Even with the discussion of high gas prices, most news just skips right over the fact that not only is oil getting expensive, but it's also getting more and more scarce.

There is also a certain blind faith that the era of cheap oil and the era of the car will never be over - something will come along and just be a 1:1 replacement for oil, and our lifestyles (especially here in the US) won't have to change at all. There is no gasoline substitute with the same energy density of oil. None. Not ethanol or biofuels, not hydrogen, not electric cars.
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Old 04-30-2008, 12:12 PM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,207,534 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal View Post
The funny thing about peak oil is how little press it gets, even though most of the oil companies (with the exception of Exxon) give a nod to it these days (after putting up lots and lots and lots of money to refute it earlier). Even with the discussion of high gas prices, most news just skips right over the fact that not only is oil getting expensive, but it's also getting more and more scarce.

There is also a certain blind faith that the era of cheap oil and the era of the car will never be over - something will come along and just be a 1:1 replacement for oil, and our lifestyles (especially here in the US) won't have to change at all. There is no gasoline substitute with the same energy density of oil. None. Not ethanol or biofuels, not hydrogen, not electric cars.
i am only too well aware of that. i listen to most people talking about advances in alternatives like we already have the solution. it's all really a big laugh. we'll run out, life will change, somethings for the better, some for the worse. personally i can't wait, things as they are are all getting a little bit boring
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Old 04-30-2008, 04:16 PM
 
955 posts, read 2,157,642 times
Reputation: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal View Post
The funny thing about peak oil is how little press it gets, even though most of the oil companies (with the exception of Exxon) give a nod to it these days (after putting up lots and lots and lots of money to refute it earlier). Even with the discussion of high gas prices, most news just skips right over the fact that not only is oil getting expensive, but it's also getting more and more scarce.

There is also a certain blind faith that the era of cheap oil and the era of the car will never be over - something will come along and just be a 1:1 replacement for oil, and our lifestyles (especially here in the US) won't have to change at all. There is no gasoline substitute with the same energy density of oil. None. Not ethanol or biofuels, not hydrogen, not electric cars.
What a bunch of optomists. And then I read from "Peak Oil: Life After the Crash":

"What about alternative energy systems like solar panels and wind turbines? Are they also manufactured using petroleum and petroleum derived resources?"
Yes.
When considering the role of oil in the production of modern technology, remember that most alternative systems of energy — including solar panels/solar-nanotechnology, windmills, hydrogen fuel cells, biodiesel production facilities, nuclear power plants, etc. all rely on sophisticated technology and energy-intensive forms of metallurgy.

In fact, all electrical devices make use of silver, copper, aluminum and platinum, each of which is discovered, extracted, and fashioned using oil or natural gas powered machinery. For instance, in his book, The Lean Years: Politics of Scarcity, author Richard J. Barnet writes:

To produce a ton of copper requires 112 million BTU's or the equal of 17.8
barrels of oil. The energy cost component of aluminum is 20 times higher.

Author Joel Garreau, in the same chapter of his book "The Nine Nations of North America" that was cited above, explains how energy-intensive the manufacture of aluminum is:
The manufacturing of aluminum requires inexpensive energy as its most
important raw material. It takes twelve times as much power to create a
pound of aluminum as it does to make a pound of iron. A good sized
aluminum plant uses as much power as a city of 175,000 people.


And then I read about which cities and states will go underwater due to global warming in this same category.

And it's all going to happen in 2020!

Sorry, I must leave. My wife has just put on a slinky dress, lit a cigarette, and is starting to sing...in a throaty voice.

"If that's all there is my friend, then let's keep dancing. Let's bring out the booze, and have a ball...if that's all...there is.
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Old 05-03-2008, 01:29 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,288,689 times
Reputation: 5194
The models I have seen on Global Warming leave much to be desired. There are thousands of factors the models do not take into consideration. First no one takes into consideration the things mankind does to reduce CO2. How much CO2 reducing farming and landscaping has man planted and used technology to irrigate? What are the effects of mankind controlling wildfires that used to burn millions of acres a year? Why do the models always assume as temperature rises we will have more desert? Aren't greenhouses humid? Would'nt the warming of the seas create more hurricanes worldwide and in places they never existed before, would'nt that cause more plant growth? The truth is that there is so many factors that affect climate we really have a poor understanding of what may happen. It is my personal belief that the earth goes thru heating and cooling cycles naturaly and there is little man can do to influence it. The earth self regulates itself. Animals and plants trive in different enviorments if the pendilum swings too far in one direction, it lays the groundwork to start a correction.
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Old 05-03-2008, 04:25 PM
 
6,762 posts, read 11,630,098 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal View Post
There is no gasoline substitute with the same energy density of oil. None. Not ethanol or biofuels, not hydrogen, not electric cars.
Gotta disagree. A few thousand pounds of plutonium will replace a few million barrels of oil EASY.

Problem is everyone is freaked out by radioactivity. I probably fall into that category at least somewhat. I think we need to move towards nuclear electric plants as quickly as possible. A guy recently discovered on his land in Virginia a field of naturally occuring plutonium large enough to feed the ENTIRE USA electricity for a decade. We just need to learn how to use nuclear properly as well as being able to recycle the nuclear waste efficiently as it can be done.

But as far as solar, wind, hydro, and biofuels, no they will not be taken the place of oil and coal in an efficient manor anytime in the forseeable future.
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