Harley Goes Electric

[guidoLaMoto]

^^ I appreciate what you're saying, but don't forget, you're the funnel point for problems. They don't bring you bikes that don't need repairs. ….I won't comment on why posers trailer their rides to Sturgis.


How many bikes make the long trips to Sturgis? How many require tows along the way? ..You talk as if all HDs need constant major over-hauls and none will make long hauls. I know hundreds of guys who regularly make the trip from Chicago and can recall none ever needing assistance along the way.


My only experience with long distance travel was 40 yrs ago on a Sportster I shipped to Italy-- only HD in Italy at the time. Zero problems in 15,000 miles driven mostly near redline on the Autostrada. And that was an AMF Harley-- supposedly the worst for quality. (The only "Official Harley Service" in Italy at the time was a small shop in a back alley in Rome--his only contact with corporate was that they sent him a catalog once when he requested it.)


In regards proper warm up-- isn't that smart for any ICE?


Think of it this way-- most auto mechanics of a certain age would say they've worked on more Chevy small blocks than any other engine-- yet that's probably the most reliable engine ever built. They see so many because there's so many out there.


I'm not a big HD "enthusiast"-- I'd never buy a new one-- not worth the premium. If you're into "comfort" and prefer something like a Goldwing, then you're stupid-- a GW isn't as comfortable as a Cadillac. I don't look down my nose at foreign bikes-- they all fill niches in their own right. I don't expect others to snidely denigrate Harley- they fill their own niche very well.

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto

^^ I appreciate what you're saying, but don't forget, you're the funnel point for problems. They don't bring you bikes that don't need repairs.

fortunately, I never worked on H-D bikes in my shop.
I only did machining for the shops that did. I can only report what I saw coming from those shops. It appeared that a lot of relatively low mileage H-D engines that weren't particularly high stressed high output motors required major top end work.

....I won't comment on why posers trailer their rides to Sturgis.

So be it. It's just striking to me that the bike you tout as being the top of the heap for long distance touring has so many riders who don't ride them as intended but trailer them to one of the biggest H-D family gatherings in the USA.


How many bikes make the long trips to Sturgis? How many require tows along the way? ..You talk as if all HDs need constant major over-hauls and none will make long hauls. I know hundreds of guys who regularly make the trip from Chicago and can recall none ever needing assistance along the way.

I don't know about the bikers riding from Chicago, but I doubt that they ride a different HD product than the riders that come from the SW USA areas. Perhaps the repairs that they have needed haven't risen to the point of discussion between you and them?

I do know of a number of HD enthusiasts down in Denver who've bought new bikes and within two years of ownership, the dealer had the bike more than the bike owners. And that's in an area where the riding season is only about 6 months of the year.


My only experience with long distance travel was 40 yrs ago on a Sportster I shipped to Italy-- only HD in Italy at the time. Zero problems in 15,000 miles driven mostly near redline on the Autostrada. And that was an AMF Harley-- supposedly the worst for quality. (The only "Official Harley Service" in Italy at the time was a small shop in a back alley in Rome--his only contact with corporate was that they sent him a catalog once when he requested it.)

Happy to hear you had a good trip all those years ago. The 883cc sporty was a very different animal then and now from the full size HD's. Have you seen HD's latest promo on this series? Buy one and they'll give you all the price you paid for it in trade against a new top line bike within 24 months. Because it's just their "entry" bike and lacks most of the HD big bike attributes except the name. Relatively speaking, sporty's are still laggards compared to many other bikes in the marketplace of similar or lesser displacement … as they were 40 years ago, too.


In regards proper warm up-- isn't that smart for any ICE?

not in the view of blowing out head gaskets as HD engines do when driven away from cold. Try to let that sink in, pal … there's a sizable aftermarket in the HD head gasket business trying to address this design flaw from HD. It presents across a bunch of their engines.


Think of it this way-- most auto mechanics of a certain age would say they've worked on more Chevy small blocks than any other engine-- yet that's probably the most reliable engine ever built. They see so many because there's so many out there.

Comparing the failure rates of one of the most durable ICE designs with the limitations of design from HD product doesn't compute.

HD has a remarkable long presence in the commercial service industry (ie, police bikes) with a high failure rate of major problems in less than 50,000 miles. Having worked in the bike industry with another line of bikes sold to that use, I got to see the performance and expense numbers for a sizable number of HD bikes. Let's take 30 years ago as an example … HD's were typically costing 18 cents per mile for a 50,000 mile service life. Competing bikes were delivering 100,000 miles of service in the same police use for around 5 cents per mile … and blowing the doors off HD's for riding performance and electrical capacity for all the desired gear in police use.


I'm not a big HD "enthusiast"-- I'd never buy a new one-- not worth the premium. If you're into "comfort" and prefer something like a Goldwing, then you're stupid-- a GW isn't as comfortable as a Cadillac

Well, you've nailed it. You've pinpointed a huge defect in the HD buyer's decision process. It's apparently not worth the money. As it is, I see a lot of used HD's everywhere from dealers to CList available for a fraction of their new price.

I'm not a Goldwing owner, nor have ever considered one for my stable of bikes (which were mostly Italian and German marques, with a smattering of Brit bikes from their "heyday" years). But to label a sizable group of bike owners who've spent significant amounts of dough (comparable to HD purchases) as "stupid" is to ignore the realities. Obviously, Honda has a winner in that series of bike, with many attributes which HD doesn't match for them. They're not for everybody, no more than HD is an everyman's bike.

To the best of my knowledge, no motorcycle ride has ever approached the comforts of a Cadillac … with weather protection and climate control along with tour luggage capacity and room for companions. To compare the driving experience and comforts of a Caddy to a bike ride is … in your words … stupid. Totally different worlds of road experience.

. I don't look down my nose at foreign bikes-- they all fill niches in their own right. I don't expect others to snidely denigrate Harley- they fill their own niche very well.

I"m happy to see folk out enjoying and riding their bikes of any and all makes/sizes/applications. But to deny the shortcomings of a given bike make/model isn't in the land of reality. HD's don't fit my riding profile as well as other bikes I've owned. They have, however, gone a long way towards my financial solvency over the decades and I thank their owners for all their help in that regard. YMMV. Have a nice day.

PS: RE: "snide" how 'bout your comments re some of the HD styling or other models which you express your disdain for? Sounds to me like you really don't like HD products overall or their pricing. That's a lot of hatred for the brand, pal.

[guidoLaMoto]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

PS: RE: "snide" how 'bout your comments re some of the HD styling or other models which you express your disdain for? Sounds to me like you really don't like HD products overall or their pricing. That's a lot of hatred for the brand, pal.

Hatred isn't the word. I merely observe, analyze and conclude: Corporate made a dumb decision 40y/a to get away from the smaller bikes cutting themselves off from a potentially large market. I also don't appreciate their reliance on China for so much of their merchandise, then try to fool the public proclaiming themselves as American.


Concerning repairs, again they don't bring you good engines for machining. I come out of Chicago, Harley's largest market. It's not unusual to have several hundred HDs ((not exaggerating) at the more popular watering holes on any given Sunday PM. I know a half dozen indy repair shop owners who don't require very much machining as part of the work load.....Comparing wear & tear problems on constantly used service bikes to what? How many non-Harley service bikes are out there?


I'm not claiming HD is perfect, just that its problems are often exaggerated. Vibration is the enemy of the engineer-- and HDs do vibrate


Actually, now that I think about it- Harley is famous for it's un-symmetrical potato-potato- potato rhythm. That gallop is actually proven mathematically to be the most efficient for energy conservation-- horses and failing hearts both gallop for efficiency-- but it also sets up more vibration in the engine. I wonder how that affects wear & tear?


BTW- my '76 Sporty was a 1000cc- very quick. I think that was the first yr with the left foot shifter. I took it to Italy because I heard a Harley would sell for 2x the price there- only to find out that was because of the value-added IVA tax-- wound up trading it for a Lamborghini Urraco. That 883 isn't a hog-- it's a pig. No wonder people buy them and want to immediately get rid of them.