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Seriously? From the article:
"On average, it costs $30 per ton to recycle trash, $50 to send it to the landfill, and $65 to $75 to incinerate it. "
$30 to $75 is big numbers? And I hope you're not naive, I l know I'm not.
Recycling seems to be the cheapest option if available, why not make use of it. It also is the smallest net energy user compared to landfill or incineration. It takes less energy to reuse something rather than destroy it
Cogeneration may be viable but certainly carries environmental risks from the waste. It require a lot of technology to produce cleaner (not clean) waste. I'm guessing even you probably wouldn't readily volunteer to live next door to one of these facilities.
At the end of the day, reducing waste is the most efficient approach to the problem, and if recycling helps I can't fathom why some folks would still be fighting it. It may have economic limitations, but as a concept it seems silly to argue against it.
If you read your whole reference, most of it was devoted to impressing us with the amount of trash we make, not the cost of dealing with it, hence my comment about rhetorical technique.
Secondly, one can question the accuracy of their calculations on cost: one would expect it would cost less to collect trash in simple garbage trucks, transport it and dump it than to collect in it specialized trucks, sort it in special facilities by many workers, transport it again to it's site of re-use. This more academic paper would seem to agree, claiming it costs almost 5x more to re-cycle"
"According to author Harvey Black of the Environmental Health Perspectives Journal, in San Jose, California “it costs $28 per ton to landfill waste compared with $147 a ton to recycle” (Black 1006). In Atlantic County, New Jersey, selling recyclable goods brings in $2.45 million. However, the cost of collecting and sorting these recycled materials plus interest payments on the recycling facility costs the county over $3 million (Black 1006). With the time, money, and energy spent collecting and processing recycled goods, the price of recycling is much higher than discarding waste into landfills or incinerators." Cost-Benefit Analysis of Recycling in the United States: Is Recycling Worth It? | English Department - University of Maryland
The only end result I can see from you tree huggers is that we all kill ourselves, have a population of ZERO, and let the earth be clean and green again ..
The only end result I can see from you tree huggers is that we all kill ourselves, have a population of ZERO, and let the earth be clean and green again ..
am I missing something here ?
You pretty much nailed it Marv.
Except of course for your whole misrepresentation of the facts via straw man attack.
Pretty much the only thing you missed. (Well, maybe that and standing in the critical thinking line. Might have seemed pretty long and not worth it, huh?)
That is an example of the plasticity of the human brain. We have coping mechanisms to make tasks seem less onerous. I remember driving every day to work going from one end of Miami to the other. I didn't consider it a chore at the time, just something I had to do, so little thought was wasted on it. Once I had the option of a workspace closer to home, that drive became a PITA. A task that some can relate to is mowing grass. For some, it is a chore, for others it is no big deal or even enjoyable. If you like sorting bottles from garbage, or even if it is just no big deal to you, great. The comment was more along the lines of "as a societal choice of taxation by activity, sorting garbage is not a wise use of time and resources for a large section of society."
I appreciate the psychological analysis, but I think your response may be an example of the rigidity of some human brains. I recycle because I want to, not because I'm forced to. Throwing something in the blue bin is not a bit more trouble than putting it in the trash. In fact, it's fewer steps for me. You live in the same area I do ... have you ever been to the city dump near where the Municipal golf course used to be? What a mess. And all that plastic that's dumped there will never deteriorate, or at least it won't in several lifetimes. Why not take it, grind it up, and make floor mats or something else useful? And why not reuse aluminum and steel that already been processed? All you have to do is melt it down and use it again. It only makes sense. Would you throw gold away, or reuse it?
I should add, and I'm sure you know since you live here, recycling is free to the homeowner. I have no control over what the company does with it once it's thrown on the truck, but I seriously doubt it's just thrown away. They have to pay their bills somehow. I can't imagine them buying trucks, hiring personnel, and running routes just to give the impression of doing something societally acceptable.
The only end result I can see from you tree huggers is that we all kill ourselves, have a population of ZERO, and let the earth be clean and green again ..
am I missing something here ?
Just curious, but can you define "tree hugger"? Does that include someone who goes to the trouble to throw something in a trash can or recycle bin as opposed to just throwing it on the ground to let the winds blow it all over the place? At what point does one become a tree hugger?
Just curious, but can you define "tree hugger"? Does that include someone who goes to the trouble to throw something in a trash can or recycle bin as opposed to just throwing it on the ground to let the winds blow it all over the place? At what point does one become a tree hugger?
TreeHugger: one who has a strong opinion of environmental issues based on imagined, false data, &/or in spite of real data to the contrary, often acting in ways toward these issues calculated to ease his conscience or to seek praise for his supposed virtues. A TreeHugger generally advocates for Draconian governmental regulations based on emotions, not scientific data and without regard to the outcomes, including the unintentional consequences resulting from such actions and regulations....TreeHuggers are often used as dupes by political manipulators who use environmental issues to realize their ulterior motives of power & control for their personal aggrandizement....Cf- "Watermelons"--Green on the outside, but Red on the inside.
You get that warm, fuzzy feeling when you recycle-- good for you, but it helps none of us.
We've presented plenty of data here showing landfills are not a problem and that some of your plastic milk bottles & straws intended for re-cycling wind up in the ocean because the Chinese company we paid with tax dollars to take it away couldn't use it and just dumped it....Still feel warm and fuzzy now that you have the facts, or do you still prefer to ignore them?
BTW- Marv has come to the obvious conclusion after analyzing the problem as presented by the TreeHuggers: if Humans are the problem, then eliminating Humans must be the solution.. ..but TreeHuggers don't think deeply enough to realize that...That's why they're the dupes of the manipulators.
Last edited by guidoLaMoto; 03-24-2019 at 02:47 AM..
TreeHugger: one who has a strong opinion of environmental issues based on imagined, false data, &/or in spite of real data to the contrary, often acting in ways toward these issues calculated to ease his conscience or to seek praise for his supposed virtues. A TreeHugger generally advocates for Draconian governmental regulations based on emotions, not scientific data and without regard to the outcomes, including the unintentional consequences resulting from such actions and regulations....TreeHuggers are often used as dupes by political manipulators who use environmental issues to realize their ulterior motives of power & control for their personal aggrandizement....Cf- "Watermelons"--Green on the outside, but Red on the inside.
I appreciate the psychological analysis, but I think your response may be an example of the rigidity of some human brains. I recycle because I want to, not because I'm forced to. Throwing something in the blue bin is not a bit more trouble than putting it in the trash. In fact, it's fewer steps for me. You live in the same area I do ... have you ever been to the city dump near where the Municipal golf course used to be? What a mess. And all that plastic that's dumped there will never deteriorate, or at least it won't in several lifetimes. Why not take it, grind it up, and make floor mats or something else useful? And why not reuse aluminum and steel that already been processed? All you have to do is melt it down and use it again. It only makes sense. Would you throw gold away, or reuse it?
I should add, and I'm sure you know since you live here, recycling is free to the homeowner. I have no control over what the company does with it once it's thrown on the truck, but I seriously doubt it's just thrown away. They have to pay their bills somehow. I can't imagine them buying trucks, hiring personnel, and running routes just to give the impression of doing something societally acceptable.
I live in the area, but I live in the country. Those who recycle must bring such material to a drop off point miles away. Perhaps I just proved your last paragraph, that the cost is NOT justified or is on such a razor edge of effectiveness that it is dropped outside of high density housing?
I've been to many dumps in my life. Where I grew up, the radio station even had a "Music To Go To The Dump By" hour on Saturday mornings. Back then, the dump had a resident caretaker, who directed people to dump various types of trash in different areas, and people were free to scavenge what they wanted as they dropped off their own waste. Some Saturdays it was like a free flea market. It was a different time. There are any number of reasons that is no longer allowed.
I stated in the OP how economics ends up dictating what happens to recycling programs. I'm not going to repeat myself in response to the interrogatories of your first paragraph.
Humans are strange creatures. In many areas the middens (waste and dung heaps) of our ancestors are legally protected and revered by scholars as an insight into the lives of past generations. I assure you that clam shells are as functionally stable as any plastic within human lifespan, and the finding of lots of clamshells can be a source of glee for archeologists, and there is regret that paper scraps in the same pile are no longer legible. -shrugs shoulders -
As another mental exercise, do you think that prehistoric coral worried about generating mountains of waste by making their reefs? How do we view the resulting (trash) limestone created by them? - as a source of lime for concrete and a building material. Ancient forest trash and waste? - a source of coal and oil. Ancient bird doo-doo? A source of nitrates prior to nitrogen fixation. Worst of all? The waste of one whole sequence of life on the planet - the oxygen we need to breathe. If ancient creatures hadn't been prolific creators of trash and waste, we wouldn't be here.
I stated in the OP how economics ends up dictating what happens to recycling programs. I'm not going to repeat myself in response to the interrogatories of your first paragraph.
That won't satisfy the twelve-year old girl mentality of "you have to do something" or "you have to start somewhere." That mentality sounded so profound at summer camp; until such a girl (actually my first sort-of girlfriend) went off on me for swatting flies. She said I was being "cruel."
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Where I grew up, the radio station even had a "Music To Go To The Dump By" hour on Saturday mornings. Back then, the dump had a resident caretaker, who directed people to dump various types of trash in different areas, and people were free to scavenge what they wanted as they dropped off their own waste. Some Saturdays it was like a free flea market. It was a different time. There are any number of reasons that is no longer allowed.
