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Old 03-09-2019, 12:42 PM
 
23,601 posts, read 70,436,018 times
Reputation: 49277

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Economics trump poorly implemented idealism. It has happened to countries, religions, businesses, and now recycling.

I never considered forcing doctors and scientists worth hundreds of dollars an hour and focused upon bettering our lives to rummage through and clean their garbage was an effective or smart idea.

Recycling is now being economically exposed for what it is - a hidden tax that was placed to increase the bottom line of cities and certain businesses. I've no problem with the idea of recycling things, but the onus needs to be targeted on those creating excess packaging and poorly designed products instead of consumers.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...cid=spartandhp
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:12 PM
 
9,100 posts, read 6,324,331 times
Reputation: 12332
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Economics trump poorly implemented idealism. It has happened to countries, religions, businesses, and now recycling.

I never considered forcing doctors and scientists worth hundreds of dollars an hour and focused upon bettering our lives to rummage through and clean their garbage was an effective or smart idea.

Recycling is now being economically exposed for what it is - a hidden tax that was placed to increase the bottom line of cities and certain businesses. I've no problem with the idea of recycling things, but the onus needs to be targeted on those creating excess packaging and poorly designed products instead of consumers.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...cid=spartandhp
The article focuses mostly on plastic and mixed paper. I don't understand how paper is a problem. It can be burned or composted but aside from that why are people still using mixed paper? Toilet paper, napkins, facial tissues and paper towels, sure we have very few substitutes for those paper products but most of this mixed paper is just magazines, advertising and junk mail. That can all be eliminated if we develop the collective will to say no more to all that.
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:56 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,655 posts, read 28,697,006 times
Reputation: 50536
The plastics. Whether the consumer wants it or not, we get it. I admire the few grocery stores, like Aldi, that don't make you feel like you're crazy if you bring your own bag. All the other stores load you down with plastic bags.

The restaurants. If they served meals in normal sized portions, instead of this practice of packing it up for you to take home, a lot of plastic would be saved. I just threw a bunch of plastic containers from last night's Chinese meal into recycling and would have been much happier just getting the ONE serving that I ordered instead of food that overflowed the plate.

I'd rather buy water in glass bottles and pay a return fee, but I seldom see water in glass bottles anymore. Besides, you buy it in one state and you aren't able to return it in another state. Need federal laws, but of course, some states will refuse to comply.

Packaging! The online buying is producing even more disposable packaging than before. It was bad enough when we saw the item in a store all wrapped up in plastic but now things aren't available in stores, you have to buy online, and you receive it in its original plastic PLUS more plastic and more paper and another box.

It would have to start at the federal level if we're going to stop these companies from so much plastic in packaging. I imagine the increase in plastic use goes back to plastic being a by product of the petroleum industry--and no one can stop them. Follow the money, the greed.
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Old 03-09-2019, 03:28 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,263 posts, read 5,143,446 times
Reputation: 17769
You mention "plastic" and the Environmentally Conscious immediately start reflexively choking on their saliva like a Pavlov dog.


One more time folks: plastic straws, packing material, parts of manufactured goods, etc are made from the products of petroleum distillation. We take billions of gallons of oil and crack it in refineries every year to produce much needed fuels and solvents. This releases much more ethane, propane & their congeners than we have use for....What can we do with this excess material?


We can take it and just throw it out, or...we can take it and turn it into plastic, then use the plastic for something that has a benefit for us, even if it's short term, like packaging material...and then throw it out.


Either way, it gets thrown out. We may as well use it for something first.
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Old 03-09-2019, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Where the heart is...
4,927 posts, read 5,317,347 times
Reputation: 10674
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
You mention "plastic" and the Environmentally Conscious immediately start reflexively choking on their saliva like a Pavlov dog.

One more time folks: plastic straws, packing material, parts of manufactured goods, etc are made from the products of petroleum distillation. We take billions of gallons of oil and crack it in refineries every year to produce much needed fuels and solvents. This releases much more ethane, propane & their congeners than we have use for....What can we do with this excess material?

We can take it and just throw it out, or...we can take it and turn it into plastic, then use the plastic for something that has a benefit for us, even if it's short term, like packaging material...and then throw it out.

Either way, it gets thrown out. We may as well use it for something first.
Yes, we certainly should. If I recall I had read quite some time ago about playgrounds using recycled plastic. I have no idea about how often it is being done, how cost effective it is, how it holds up and where it has been done.

Recycled Plastic Playgrounds - Play Structures

Go Green playgrounds!

http://www.bluegrassplaygrounds.com/...laygrounds.htm
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Old 03-09-2019, 04:57 PM
 
4,985 posts, read 3,968,766 times
Reputation: 10147
our local recycling promotions have evolved.
at first, "it will pay for itself".
then, "save the eco-system, recycle."
now, "our current costs require a recycle fee."

when...bottom line...very little (~14%) was ever actually recycled.
most of it was shipped to China, where "who knows?"
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Old 03-09-2019, 08:19 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,655 posts, read 28,697,006 times
Reputation: 50536
Seems like several decades ago, we were not going to be dependent upon petroleum. That was going to be phased out. Maybe I'm imagining it. We were going to have solar power, wind power, all sorts of alternatives. But it's still oil. And plastic is an oil by product. And we are still polluting the earth.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:30 PM
 
2,151 posts, read 1,356,550 times
Reputation: 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
You mention "plastic" and the Environmentally Conscious immediately start reflexively choking on their saliva like a Pavlov dog.


One more time folks: plastic straws, packing material, parts of manufactured goods, etc are made from the products of petroleum distillation. We take billions of gallons of oil and crack it in refineries every year to produce much needed fuels and solvents. This releases much more ethane, propane & their congeners than we have use for....What can we do with this excess material?


We can take it and just throw it out, or...we can take it and turn it into plastic, then use the plastic for something that has a benefit for us, even if it's short term, like packaging material...and then throw it out.


Either way, it gets thrown out. We may as well use it for something first.
If we simply use it and properly dispose of it in a way that it doesn't enter the environment (oceans and other habitats), it would be much better. But we know that this is not the case. One way to slow the spread of plastic trash is to recycle. Another is to stop using it. It's safer to dispose of the waste product in a controlled manner than to let it out in our environment.

As we know, we're trying hard to cut down on our dependence on oil as it is due to the rampant negative impact that has on the environment as well. So, over time, we will have lesser and lesser waste from refining oil.
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:31 PM
 
2,151 posts, read 1,356,550 times
Reputation: 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Seems like several decades ago, we were not going to be dependent upon petroleum. That was going to be phased out. Maybe I'm imagining it. We were going to have solar power, wind power, all sorts of alternatives. But it's still oil. And plastic is an oil by product. And we are still polluting the earth.
It will take more than a decade or two to reduce our reliance on oil.
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Old 03-09-2019, 11:19 PM
 
Location: SC
8,793 posts, read 8,168,172 times
Reputation: 12992
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
You mention "plastic" and the Environmentally Conscious immediately start reflexively choking on their saliva like a Pavlov dog.


One more time folks: plastic straws, packing material, parts of manufactured goods, etc are made from the products of petroleum distillation. We take billions of gallons of oil and crack it in refineries every year to produce much needed fuels and solvents. This releases much more ethane, propane & their congeners than we have use for....What can we do with this excess material?


We can take it and just throw it out, or...we can take it and turn it into plastic, then use the plastic for something that has a benefit for us, even if it's short term, like packaging material...and then throw it out.


Either way, it gets thrown out. We may as well use it for something first.
Then it might as well be turned into something useful that has a longer useful period - benches instead of straws. Things that when tossed do not end up in the ocean as small items that endanger aquatic life. It is not a binary choice.
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