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Today's New York Times says it all; Why Do Some People in New Jersey Suddenly Have Bags and Bags of Bags? (link)and Germany Announces New L.N.G. Facility, Calling It a Green Move From Russian Energy(link) are both about the futility of "feel good" environmental moves. A quote from the article about bags: "Dr. Miller said the bag situation in New Jersey was emblematic of a lot of environmental policies. “If we don’t pay attention to the unintended impacts of policies such as the plastic waste ban, we run into the potential of playing environmental Whac-a-Mole,” she said. “We solve one environmental problem only to create or exacerbate another problem.”
Add to it the sudden decision of the California legislature, which "voted to extend the life of Diablo Canyon, California’s last nuclear power plant, by five years, a step once unthinkable to many environmentalists (link). As far as the article about Germany goes, I thought the whole point was to eliminate natural gas.
What are we accomplishing by all this harem-skarem activity other than salving our consciences for being affluent?
Last edited by jbgusa; 09-02-2022 at 11:14 AM..
Reason: Take out hard returns
Interesting...the problem in the bag example seems to be that a small subset went to permanent bags using them as disposable. Paper would have been a better alternative. Admittedly, I get a lot of our groceries from Walmart store pickup which uses way too many plastic bags relative to the order.
I have a handful of non-disposable bags kicking around, we use them for a long time before eventually tossing them either for being a mess, tearing, etc...
Interesting...the problem in the bag example seems to be that a small subset went to permanent bags using them as disposable. Paper would have been a better alternative. Admittedly, I get a lot of our groceries from Walmart store pickup which uses way too many plastic bags relative to the order.
I have a handful of non-disposable bags kicking around, we use them for a long time before eventually tossing them either for being a mess, tearing, etc...
Problem in NJ, in an ultimate signal of its legislators' virtues, banned paper bags as well. I guess they want NJ to be like the Caribbean, with people carrying groceries on their head. I can't post a picture without violating TOS.
Reusable bags, which are a wonderful idea, have fallen prey to commercial interests that produce them as an act of virtue signaling. I have been using the same two baskets for my grocery shopping for more than ten years. Use what you already own.
I saw this problem the first time I ordered a large delivery of groceries for a relative, and there is zero change the businesses weren't aware of this "issue" from the get-go; it is just the customer's "issue" to deal with the bags, probably, from the business' perspective.
Some alternative ideas:
Deliver the groceries in cardboard boxes. Recyclable, good for the planet. This would work slightly better from the consumer's angle; the boxes take up space but they aren't that difficult to flatten and to put out with the recycling. From the business' perspective this is costly, and the boxes also take up much more storage room on their side.
Deliver the groceries in plastic boxes, reusable crates, that the delivery person takes back in the vehicle after groceries are delivered/unpacked. Pro: reusable, good for the planet. Con: time is money, and time is wasted while the delivery person waits for the customer to unpack the groceries so that they can get the plastic crates back and leave.
Deliver the groceries in paper bags. Similar pro's/con's to above. But this doesn't seem more costly than reusable cloth bags ,so why don't businesses choose this option? I'm genuinely curious, and would love to know the answer.
Deliver the groceries in compostable bags. Similar to the paper bags, same pro's and con's, except that "compostable" plastic bags don't compost very quickly, just a bit more quickly than traditional plastic bags, afaik. They're still a bit pricey to make, so a cost to the business.
Return the cloth bags for a small deposit when you accumulate enough of them. Pro: Easy for the customer. Like with beverage bottles and cans. Con: I'm not sure that the types of reusable cloth bags they use are either cleanable (sterilizable), or recyclable themselves, they're made of recycled fibres, but I don't think they can be recycled again after that if they're soiled.
Grocery delivery is generating packaging waste, same as other online delivery options that use bubble envelopes and cardboard boxes. Best option, I think, is to find a compostable packaging system. Cardboard, paper, seaweed, I don't know, but some compostable material.
Does this mean that all efforts to reduce waste and align business interests with the good of the environment are a waste of time? Logic says no...
I use all sorts of reusable bags and am so glad this state got rid of the plastic bags. I had all sorts of tote bags, beach bags, barely used. These last few years they live in the car and get used every time I go grocery shopping.
There are still enough plastic bags that I can use to take the trash out without buying more plastic. Stuff comes in plastic when you order online, like it or not.
Grocers receive their products in boxes. Why not use those boxes for delivery instead of reusable bags? The customer recycles the boxes, everyone is happy.
None of these proposed solutions take into account our aging population, with various medical problems that preclude them from lifting boxes full of groceries (unless you're proposing to put only 5 small items in each box) or digging holes for composting. Every solution that I've seen in the past 10 years to deal with trash disposal or recycling has made the lives of the elderly and disabled more difficult.
And switching to paper bags isn't a great solution either. It requires cutting our forests, and despite being recyclable, many of those bags never actually get recycled, and recycling itself is wasteful and costly. Ditto for cardboard boxes.
Training supermarket checkout employees not to waste bags while bagging would reduce plastic bag usage by at least 10-20%. Why do a can of tomatoes and a bottle of shampoo have to go in separate bags just because one is food and the other isn't? Why does a carton of eggs have to go in a bag all by itself? It's because "my supervisor/store manager/corporate says we have to do it this way." Arbitrary and wasteful rules.
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