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Old 09-07-2022, 06:04 PM
 
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The biggest electricity using things in a typical American all electric home include refrigerator, clothes dryer, water heater, central air system, and cooking appliances. If more homes used natural gas or propane for cooking, water heater, clothes dryer, and furnace for heat then that would be a reduction on the power grid. Our home has natural gas. Our clothes dryer is electric from our previous home. Thankfully there was an electric connection so we didn’t need to buy a new clothes dryer.

So why aren’t more homes built with gas or propane?
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Old 09-07-2022, 07:49 PM
 
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I've lived in seven homes in different parts of the country as an adult, and all of them were hooked up to natural gas.
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Old 09-07-2022, 07:53 PM
 
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Because that's not what California wants. Many cities in CA (along with a few other cities elsewhere, such as NYC) have placed a ban on natural gas for all new construction. Not just for heating, but also for uses like cooking equipment in restaurants, and water heaters in hotels and large apartment buildings.

Electricity is way less efficient and more expensive for stuff like this, but it doesn't matter, that's what they want.

Then they send out emergency alerts to everyone's cell phone pleading to conserve electricity, because they don't have enough capacity for everyone to use electricity for everything like they mandated.
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Old 09-07-2022, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
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I’ve only had one home that we owned for 2 years that had natural gas. The other 3 homes- 26 years total are rural and the cost for infrastructure to run NG is not worth it for the utility.

So electric and propane is what you get. In a lot of cases electricity is more stable (price) than propane so it gets used. Such is the case with our current home. We use propane to cook and fire a heater in the garage, and a seldom used fireplace. The rest is electric (heat pumps, baseboard). Our rates are semi-controlled by a PSC so they don’t have volatile swings like propain.

We also have a big honking pellet burner. And solar.
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Old 09-08-2022, 08:31 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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There are cities in other states that have banned new natural gas connections, because despite being more efficient and cheaper it's a fossil fuel, which gives it an environmentally nasty reputation. Here we still build new homes with natural gas, most people prefer it. For us it's the stove, water heater, furnace, and one of the fireplaces.
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Old 09-08-2022, 11:04 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Natural Gas is not available in many parts of the USA.

Only (2) of my 40+ properties have had NG available, and those were in a region that had NG wells within 5 miles of town. Our PNW utility installed a NG turbines rather than renew nuke power. 100% of our NG must be imported. Depending on imported energy is not very strategic or economically wise. Ask Germany.
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Old 09-08-2022, 12:38 PM
 
1,877 posts, read 2,241,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfrabel View Post
Because that's not what California wants. Many cities in CA (along with a few other cities elsewhere, such as NYC) have placed a ban on natural gas for all new construction. Not just for heating, but also for uses like cooking equipment in restaurants, and water heaters in hotels and large apartment buildings.

Electricity is way less efficient and more expensive for stuff like this, but it doesn't matter, that's what they want.

Then they send out emergency alerts to everyone's cell phone pleading to conserve electricity, because they don't have enough capacity for everyone to use electricity for everything like they mandated.
There's a lot to argue with what you've said.

1) Electricity is not way less efficient. Firstly it depends on where the energy source comes from, how it's harvested, transmitted, as well the byproduct that has to be considered.

2) Both the electricity capacity and demand are at record levels and California is finally coming around on nuclear since the state is a net energy importer and demand trends show a predictable increase.

Finally, California has to deal with earthquakes and natural gas lines are not exactly what you want with seismic activity...just ask the city of San Bruno: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Br...line_explosion

or even in areas where seismic activity is virtually zero like in Andover, Ma: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrim...gas_explosions

To address the OP, many structures in the past that did not have gas line infrastructure readily available would utilize their own storage tank (think winter heating oil in the Northeast or propane tanks in the desert), but with electricity being harvested from wind/solar/hydro at a increasingly more efficient rate we will likely see more electric appliances and micro-grid electricity storage with fewer high-transmission lines.
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Old 09-08-2022, 02:51 PM
 
1,148 posts, read 1,408,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwong7 View Post
There's a lot to argue with what you've said.

1) Electricity is not way less efficient. Firstly it depends on where the energy source comes from, how it's harvested, transmitted, as well the byproduct that has to be considered.

2) Both the electricity capacity and demand are at record levels and California is finally coming around on nuclear since the state is a net energy importer and demand trends show a predictable increase.

Finally, California has to deal with earthquakes and natural gas lines are not exactly what you want with seismic activity...just ask the city of San Bruno: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Br...line_explosion

or even in areas where seismic activity is virtually zero like in Andover, Ma: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrim...gas_explosions

To address the OP, many structures in the past that did not have gas line infrastructure readily available would utilize their own storage tank (think winter heating oil in the Northeast or propane tanks in the desert), but with electricity being harvested from wind/solar/hydro at a increasingly more efficient rate we will likely see more electric appliances and micro-grid electricity storage with fewer high-transmission lines.
1) Fair enough. "Efficiency" of 2 completely different things really can't be compared fairly. I still don't think it's very efficient to create electricity at a generating plant several miles away (however it's created) and then have to transmit it through several transformer stations and then get it to your house or business. There are losses all along the way.

2) Nuclear? Really? In an earthquake prone area? You are worried about gas line explosions during an earthquake, but I think I'd take a gas explosion over a giant mushroom cloud that takes out the entire state of California. Oh wait, now that you mention it...

3) Electricity is dangerous too. Besides the hazard of electrocution, how many house fires and wild fires are caused by electricity? I'd be willing to bet that much more property damage is caused each year by electricity than with natural gas. Especially in California where many wild fires seem to be reported to be caused by faulty electrical infrastructure.
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Old 09-08-2022, 03:28 PM
 
14,611 posts, read 17,599,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
So why aren’t more homes built with gas or propane?
Actually, electricity and Natural gas are almost exactly equal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EIA Jun 14, 2022
Electricity is used in almost all homes, and retail electricity purchases accounted for 43% of total residential sector end-use energy consumption in 2021.

Natural gas, which was used in 58% of homes in 2015, accounted for 42% of residential sector end-use energy consumption in 2021.
Natural gas is a fossil fuel, but it's environmental impact is much lower than other fossil fuels. AFAIK, only California has declared outright war on natural gas.

Pennsylvania is building natural gas electric generators like crazy despite having a huge supply of nuclear power and is now the state with the highest level of electricity exports. New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, Virginia and Ohio all consume more electricity than they generate.

Full list of states that need to import electricity to meet consumption. They are ranked as California must import the most electricity in the nation, despite the fact that CA and HI have the lowest consumption per person.
  1. Maine
  2. Colorado
  3. Missouri
  4. Vermont
  5. Delaware
  6. Wisconsin
  7. North Carolina
  8. Idaho
  9. Indiana
  10. Minnesota
  11. Kentucky
  12. District of Columbia
  13. New Jersey
  14. New York
  15. Georgia
  16. Virginia
  17. Tennessee
  18. Maryland
  19. Ohio
  20. Massachusetts
  21. California

The boldfaced states buy electricity from Pennsylvania.
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Old 09-08-2022, 06:31 PM
KCZ
 
4,682 posts, read 3,679,754 times
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Two observations...

It's too impractical, as well as expensive, to run natural gas lines in rural, low pop density, areas.

Induction ranges are much, much more energy-efficient than gas ranges.
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