Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ask you geoscientist friend to explain how [co2] levels were once 8000ppm, temps didn't rise above 22degC and the planet didn't melt away....Have him explain how ch4 is a problem at all when it's levels are only 1/10,000th of that of co2 and its absorption spectrum is completely over-lapped by that of h20 & co2....
...or, you could just have another sip of KoolAid and smuggly relax, knowing that you have all the facts and know exactly what all the rest of us stupid people should do.
When the CO2 levels were 8000ppm, over 500 million years ago, the Sun was cooler and Earth's orbital cycles were different. Life in that period was confined to the seas, and there were very few plants on land.
No one knows all the facts, but we can't just blithely go along dumping millions of tons of CO2 and methane into the atmosphere every year and think that nothing is going to change.
Seriously I feel I answered your question. The attack is by the "elites", who feel they know better than everyone else and are entitled to rule, to punish ordinary people for any success they may have.
Given all the various interests that need to be involved to pull that off, that's one helluva conspiracy you're peddling. I'd reckon the "elites" would need to be so numerous that they'd no longer be elite.
Sometimes it's just not worth being a contrarian.
As I told someone else, I believe ya, but millions wouldn't.
And one more thing.....the hell with the non-elites....
There doesn't necessarily have to be this direct, "big-brother" control. I have electronic tolling, via a sensor in my car so I know my whereabouts, to some extent, are being tracked. I don't care since I obey the law. Indirect control can come from restricting how much electricity can be drawn from the grid, or just making it too expensive and/or (and I mean "or" more) burdensome. That's why I threw plastic bags into my OP. Participating in the consumer society is being burdened, as a result of bag accumulation in the Bay of Bengal off India. It's ideology, not results, that matter.
I was answering your question on where is the motivation (and benefit) coming from on the push for EVs, recycling, etc. Inferred in my answer was none of this makes an environmental difference. It’s about control. Even wonder where the dollars go when you donate to “carbon offset” payments?
Electric cars are toys for people who need to pretend they're green without conserving energy or losing any luxuries or conveniences. This toy fad could last a few more months, until this winter's fuel shortages. Anything that works well enough with available energy will start squeezing out the insanely wasteful devices. Gas cars with high mpg could be very expensive then, so electric car owners may be stuck until spring. Building adequate public transportation infrastructure will take at least years, maybe decades, if that ever starts. Building bike muscle also takes years, but that can begin today.
I have my doubts about, and seriously distrust the motives of the push for conversion to electric vehicles ("EV's). The goal of the EV movement is to restrict the freedom of movement. The environmental benefits are minuscule. We will not be generating nearly all our electricity by wind and solar in 2035. Europe's approaching disastrous winter shows that you cannot simply decree away hydrocarbon use. In addition, in order to make the required batteries, other major environmental damage is required. See, e.g. Electric Cars Are Not Particularly Green - Blowing Up Mountain Not Environmental Virtue. See also the article, The Lithium Gold Rush: Inside the Race to Power Electric Vehicles in the far from "denier" New York Times (link), points out that there is much environmental damage from manufacturing electric automobiles. The people and powers that are pushing the EV movement are either incredibly dumb, which I do not believe, are childlike, i.e. implicitly saying "we have to do something", or are willfully deceptive.
Academics have long disparaged the "affluent lifestyle" and what they see as over-consumption. This is an excerpt from a summary (link) of The Affluent Society by John Kenneth Galbraith, written in 1958, which I am currently reading (the book price was $0.75, which shows how long it has been on my family bookshelf):This foreshadowed by other authors and thinkers, such as Travels with Charley: In Search of America by John Steinbeck. This line of thinking from academia has seeped into the culture, and pops up in policy decisions such as recycling of garbage (largely useless for a variety of reasons), suppression of "ozone emissions" by refrigerators and air conditioning, plastic bag bans, (and now even paper bag, see Reusable Bag Glut Creates New Environmental Issue; Solve One Problem, Create Another), and other measures that make life more difficult without much if any offsetting gain.
These actions might feel good but not do good.
With all due respect, can you state your point, your question......as it relates to Green Living and not politics such as control?
That is, for the subject at hand, is it good for green living, is it harmful for green living, or is it useless for green living, keeping in mind that even if it is useless for green living, if it produces a good feeling, that isn't bad, either.
As it goes, if I had an electric car, I would probably search out someway to have it solar charged, both from my stand point of being away from the grid as much as I can and being respectful of the grid with the loads it is under.
BUT, what size of solar grid is required to charge an electric car and a bank of storage batteries given that the charge time and probably the drive time is during the day? How much of my forest has to be cleared for such a solar grid?
As far as wind mills go, well in that I see the ranch as a nature preserve, there are so many questions to answer.
I find electric cars interesting in that they probably fall into most of the aspects of life of who they are intended for that isn't my life. That is, I don't live in a city. My way of living is to come home and sit tight, many of my weekends are just like that, not budging except for essential trips or not budging at all.
You know, for many decades, we have been told to combine our trips. Well, is the electric car designed for the 4 shopping bag grocery trip or the Grand Tour like what my Forester can do: 200 lbs of kitty litter and cans of cat food (1st store), say 4 bags of canned goods (2 and 3 store), the grocery store run for a month-6 weeks where check out is a FULL shopping cart. A good Saturday afternoon of shopping, some 5-6 hours long. Can the electric car do that with a decent reserve capacity of travel?
It is an interesting trade off of things, personally. Of how we conduct our lives, day to day, vs the individual day impact and the impact of days combined.
Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 10-15-2022 at 03:20 PM..
When the CO2 levels were 8000ppm, over 500 million years ago, the Sun was cooler and Earth's orbital cycles were different. Life in that period was confined to the seas, and there were very few plants on land.
No one knows all the facts, but we can't just blithely go along dumping millions of tons of CO2 and methane into the atmosphere every year and think that nothing is going to change.
What size of the house do YOU have? Only one house? What is your electric bill in KWh? Do you use natural or propane gas in your home? How many therms per year or monthly?
How many miles your household drives in 1 year on average?
How many airline miles your household flies per year?
Some inquiring minds want to know..
Do you even know it right away?
When the CO2 levels were 8000ppm, over 500 million years ago, the Sun was cooler and Earth's orbital cycles were different. Life in that period was confined to the seas, and there were very few plants on land.
No one knows all the facts, but we can't just blithely go along dumping millions of tons of CO2 and methane into the atmosphere every year and think that nothing is going to change.
BS. The planet has had several cycles of hi/lo co2 and hi/lo temps over the last billion yrs and the correlation is zero. While correlation does not prove causality, you can't have causality without hi correlation. QED.
BS. The planet has had several cycles of hi/lo co2 and hi/lo temps over the last billion yrs and the correlation is zero. While correlation does not prove causality, you can't have causality without hi correlation. QED.
What? Are you claiming Earth had high CO2 and low temperatures?
The issue with climate change is that many models show a "tipping point" where the change is completely irreversible and leads to much hotter temperatures, a loss of arable land, and a probable loss of a large percentage of the humans on the Earth. It is impossible to say with certainty whether a specific weather event was made worse by climate change, but you can look at trends and see increases in temperatures, warmer winters, more hurricanes with higher wind speeds, etc.
Much of the middle class lifestyle probably should be attacked as unsustainable. Single use plastic bags are bad, and a waste of resources. They also end up blowing all over the place when disposed of improperly. They also kill marine creatures. Fast fashion is an environmental disaster, with clothes being tossed in the trash after a couple of wearings because they aren't cool anymore. I wear my clothes until the fall apart, but that's not as common as it used to be.
What solution do you or other green advocates have other than soft (or not so soft) lockdown?
It's all about control. The messaging that comes is:
(1) EVs are good, green, and clean.
(2) Fossil fuels are bad, smokey, and dirty.
It's ideological extremism beyond belief just like the government did with COVID vaccines. If you're vaccinated, you're wonderful. If you're not vaccinated, you're evil. Same thing with EVs.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
