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You're just moving money. You can't prove that would help the planet's climate.
You can't prove a carbon tax won't help climate. In any case, the goal is to reduce the use of fossil fuels by making users pay for the externalities they create by using fossil fuels, rather than just continuing to dump CO2 and a variety of pollutants into the atmosphere.
You can't prove a carbon tax won't help climate. In any case, the goal is to reduce the use of fossil fuels by making users pay for the externalities they create by using fossil fuels, rather than just continuing to dump CO2 and a variety of pollutants into the atmosphere.
What is the current level of [co2]?
What is the toxic level of [co2]?
Below what level of [co2] will photosynthesis cease?
Are we closer to the toxic level or the minimal level? Are we in more danger from hi or from low co2?
What's the color of the sky in your world....Over here in The Real World, it's blue.
You can't prove a carbon tax won't help climate. In any case, the goal is to reduce the use of fossil fuels by making users pay for the externalities they create by using fossil fuels, rather than just continuing to dump CO2 and a variety of pollutants into the atmosphere.
That's a very low bar to actions that hinder or cripple economies, and hurt the people who can least afford it.
Below what level of [co2] will photosynthesis cease?
Are we closer to the toxic level or the minimal level? Are we in more danger from hi or from low co2?
What's the color of the sky in your world....Over here in The Real World, it's blue.
What is the level of CO2 that causes worldwide surface temperatures to rise by 3 degrees C?
Given the lag between increases in CO2 levels and temperature change, when should we look for ways to reduce CO2 output?
How much ice can melt off of Greenland, Antarctica, and the Arctic before Miami, NYC, Boston, Los Angeles, London, Mumbai, Sydney, Auckland, etc lose significant land area due to higher sea level? What temperature rise will cause that?
What temperature rise causes aridification of the Great Plains reducing agricultural output to levels that cause famine?
That's a very low bar to actions that hinder or cripple economies, and hurt the people who can least afford it.
How are economies crippled when CO2 output is reduced? There's been good progress towards that by shutting down coal fired power generation in favor of natural gas. Texas had 4 or 5 giant coal fired plants shut down when the owners bet on coal staying cheaper than gas. They lost that bet in a big way.
We need to build more nuclear plants too. The super green types are idiots on that topic. We could build several hundred smaller plants, similar to the ones used on US Navy ships, and provide a lot of baseline power generation.
The Green New Deal people are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think they can achieve their goal of eliminating fossil fuels by 2035, or whatever their goal is. Wind and solar and power storage are important, yes, but will not cover all load requirements all the time. Nor will electric trains, tractors, heavy construction equipment and other large devices be able to switch to 100% electric power by then.
The transition to lower carbon output isn't going to happen overnight.
What is the level of CO2 that causes worldwide surface temperatures to rise by 3 degrees C?
Given the lag between increases in CO2 levels and temperature change, when should we look for ways to reduce CO2 output?
How much ice can melt off of Greenland, Antarctica, and the Arctic before Miami, NYC, Boston, Los Angeles, London, Mumbai, Sydney, Auckland, etc lose significant land area due to higher sea level? What temperature rise will cause that?
What temperature rise causes aridification of the Great Plains reducing agricultural output to levels that cause famine?
You are apparently not aware that the effect of co2 on temperature follows an exponential curve. You get the same amount of warming with each doubling of [co2], so the 1.3degC of warming that supposedly occurred when [co2] went from 100ppm to 200ppm is the same amount of warming that will occur when it goes from 400ppm to 800ppm-- and there ain't enough fossil fuel on the planet to make it go to 800ppm.
You are also apparently unaware that further warming will increase, not decease the precipitation in The Great Plains. Arid conditions in deserts are mainly due to the effect of Hadley Cell Circulation at 30degN & S latitudes. It has nothing to do with temperature....BTW-- that brings up a good point-- deserts tend to have hi daytime temps and low night time temps because they have few clouds, illustrating the effect of h20 on weather. They have the same [co2] as everywhere else.
Sea levels rose 200m (600 ft) over just a few thousand years (10cm/yr) as the last Ice Age started to end...and you're worried about <2mm/yr ?...BTW-- most sea level rise lately is a result of suppression of the tectonic plates from the weight of the last great glaciers. It's not because the oceans are any deeper. The surfaces are getting closer to the satellites measuring them. Tide gauges sunk in the bedrock of harbors don't show any change. ...and many shores of the Pacific Rim are actually lower now. That's the real explanation for the loss of reefs there...which have been recovering lately.. More sensational lies for the uninformed to believe in to recruit their votes & money by those with political agenda....
...and as long as we're talking about receding ice-- Greenland's ice is melting from UNDERNEATH due to geothermal activity, not from warming air. The air temps i Greenland only get above freezing for a couple weeks in summer....But then you know all this stuff and have thought it thru, right? After all, it's Settled Science....at least you teachers told you that.
How are economies crippled when CO2 output is reduced? There's been good progress towards that by shutting down coal fired power generation in favor of natural gas. Texas had 4 or 5 giant coal fired plants shut down when the owners bet on coal staying cheaper than gas. They lost that bet in a big way.
We need to build more nuclear plants too. The super green types are idiots on that topic. We could build several hundred smaller plants, similar to the ones used on US Navy ships, and provide a lot of baseline power generation.
I agree, except most of the advocates of strong action against climate change foreclose both natural gas and nuclear power as alternatives. Most of the product of fracking is natural gas. My state, New York, in its stupidity banned both fracking and the transport of gas produced in Pennsylvania to New England, as a means of posturing against any fossil fuel. Europe turned the key on domestic natural gas production and they have a crisis on their hands. Jane Fonda and other non-experts, similarly, around the time of the movie The China Syndrome (timed unfortunately and coincidentally with Three Mile Island) generated hysteria about nuclear fuel.
One has to believe, then, that the goal of the climate alarmists is to rein in Western society. After all, what is meant by the increasingly used term "climate equity"? See this virtually incoherent site, Defining Climate Equity, sponsored, ironically by Louisiana's government. See one of the slides, entitled Ripple Effects of Climate Change:
Quote:
Ripple Effects of Climate Change
•Loss of Life
•Displacement- (Internally Displaced Persons
(IDP); Climate Refugees).
•Damage to natural systems.
•Damage to food and water systems.
•Damage to property and infrastructure.
•Damage to industrial systems- power plants;
refineries; etc.
•High/Long Stress impact (PTSD)
•Disaster Capitalism
•Gentrification
•Continued Oppression
Some of these are socialist dog-whistles. For example, "Disaster capitalism", one term I have not heard, means "the practice (by a government, regime, etc) of taking advantage of a major disaster to adopt neoliberal economic policies that the population would be less likely to accept under normal circumstances." (link). Displacement- (Internally Displaced Persons (IDP); Climate Refugees) speaks for itself, as does "High/Long Stress impact (PTSD), gentrification and Continued Oppression. When the site finally gets around to defining "Climate Equity" this is what we get:
Quote:
What is it? Climate equity ensures the just distribution of the benefits of climate protection efforts and alleviates unequal burdens created by climate change. What is required? This requires intentional policies and projects that simultaneously address the effects of and the systems that perpetuate both climate change and inequity.
The focus on CO2, then, is a focus on economic activity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20
The Green New Deal people are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think they can achieve their goal of eliminating fossil fuels by 2035, or whatever their goal is. Wind and solar and power storage are important, yes, but will not cover all load requirements all the time. Nor will electric trains, tractors, heavy construction equipment and other large devices be able to switch to 100% electric power by then.
The transition to lower carbon output isn't going to happen overnight.
, "Disaster capitalism", one term I have not heard, means "the practice (by a government, regime, etc) of taking advantage of a major disaster to adopt neoliberal economic policies that the population would be less likely to accept under normal.... .
Classic Liberal projection-- claiming the other side is doing what they themselves are actually doing--considering it's directly out of communist Sol Alinsky's Rules for Radicals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals
I live in an area where there are 'plastic bag bans' all over...I think it's a control/budget issue over anything. Because I've also seen stores that offer alternatives to just plastic...there's paper,recyclables...
Classic Liberal projection-- claiming the other side is doing what they themselves are actually doing--considering it's directly out of communist Sol Alinsky's Rules for Radicals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals
Off topic, but I actually read that book. Set in the context of when it was written, 1972, it was at the time a constructive book. It was trying to get leftists to engage in dialog, not destruction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth11
I live in an area where there are 'plastic bag bans' all over...I think it's a control/budget issue over anything. Because I've also seen stores that offer alternatives to just plastic...there's paper,recyclables...
Believe it or not NJ wants to ban paper bags as well. I guess they want us to emulate Trinidadian or Jamaican markets where people carry baskets on their head.
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