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Old 11-04-2022, 09:16 AM
 
3 posts, read 5,997 times
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Hi there, dropping a link here to a good primer on driving an EV in winter. There are definitely some misconceptions out there about exactly how much range loss occurs in colder temperatures, so this is a useful explanation of the variation in models, how and why cold weather affects range, and some suggestions on optimising your EVs performance in winter.

https://zerofy.net/2022/11/04/ev-winter-range.html
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Old 11-04-2022, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
11,484 posts, read 6,008,999 times
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Reposting link

https://zerofy.net/2022/11/04/ev-winter-range.html
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Old 11-04-2022, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
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It is interesting that regenerative breaking is less efficient in the cold. That was unexpected.

It is interesting that the rates of fast charging slows down as it gets colder. That too was unexpected.

It is nice to know you can preheat the interior before you leave and can do that remotely like if you are wrapping up lunch at a restaurant at the ski resort and your EV is on a charger, you could remote warm it while you are finishing your coffee, paying the tab, using the facilities, and walking out to the car.

It is just a matter of getting used to the ups and downs of EVs. I do hope for a breakthrough with recharging rates. That would pretty much fix any concerns about range anxiety.
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Old 11-04-2022, 02:02 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,261 posts, read 5,139,849 times
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Not at all surprising that temps affect battery efficiency...Batteries are essentially conducting a chemical reaction, and, for first order kinetics, the rate of reaction falls by half for every 10*C fall in temps...

If your range is (for easy arithmetic) 400 miles at temps of 75*F (23*C), empirical evidence (real world experience) shows that range will fall by ~10% at 13*C (55*F), ie- you lose about 40 miles of range-- Not an insurmountable problem-- Just plan on it. You shouldn't be running the batteries down that low anyways.... OTOH- drop another 10*C and you;re down to 25% of your good weather range and when you get into real winter like we have here in WI, you better just plan on short commutes and not day-long road trips.

Resistance heating (electric) is really wasteful.

EVs are niche vehicles not approriate for many common applications across a large chunk of the US.

https://energy.drax.com/insights/win...-ev-batteries/
https://www.consumerreports.org/hybr...e-a5751769461/
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Old 11-04-2022, 02:18 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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With the additional weight from the batteries, I wonder if they will do any better in the snow, or maybe that will be offset by the reduced traction from the harder rubber on EV tires. We all lose some range in the snow and ice, because of driving slower and using 4WD. My F150 5.0 V8 for example may go down from 18-19 to 16-17. Of course that's still about 576-612 miles to the tank.
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Old 11-05-2022, 01:56 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,261 posts, read 5,139,849 times
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^^^ True...and, because the fuel delivery systems (carburetors & fuel injection) are designed to provide a 16:1 air fuel ratio to the combustion chamber, and cold air is denser than warm air, an ICE necessarily uses more fuel in the cold weather even without considering driving techniques.

I've wondered how driving an EV is affected by low traction conditions due to wet/ice/snow? With all that torque inherent in electric motors compared to ICE vehicles, I wonder if there is more danger?...ABS braking and traction control computerized features turn lousy drivers into mediocre drivers...but they also turn good drivers into mediocre drivers....I'd rather keep my life in my own hands rather than surrender it to some computer geek in Silicon Valley who has never even seen snow.
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Old 11-09-2022, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
6,913 posts, read 3,379,619 times
Reputation: 8629
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Not at all surprising that temps affect battery efficiency...Batteries are essentially conducting a chemical reaction, and, for first order kinetics, the rate of reaction falls by half for every 10*C fall in temps...

If your range is (for easy arithmetic) 400 miles at temps of 75*F (23*C), empirical evidence (real world experience) shows that range will fall by ~10% at 13*C (55*F), ie- you lose about 40 miles of range-- Not an insurmountable problem-- Just plan on it. You shouldn't be running the batteries down that low anyways.... OTOH- drop another 10*C and you;re down to 25% of your good weather range and when you get into real winter like we have here in WI, you better just plan on short commutes and not day-long road trips.

Resistance heating (electric) is really wasteful.

EVs are niche vehicles not approriate for many common applications across a large chunk of the US.

https://energy.drax.com/insights/win...-ev-batteries/
https://www.consumerreports.org/hybr...e-a5751769461/
I am guessing you really did not read the article or know how EVs manage temps. Your links tell a similar range loss - both EV and ICE lose 15-20% in cold weather. A similar range loss in EV and ICE but not to the point of making an EV not appropriate for colder climates. In Norway, most new vehicles are EVs so even in cold climates they do well.

Many EVs have systems to heat or coll the battery so the battery temps are not as low as the environment so the loss can be smaller than may be expected - the battery temp is not the external temp. The Tesla X showed no range loss in cold weather (in the story) and most others are similar to that of ICE according to tests.

There are guys that have run long distances in very cold weather that show that it works fine - here is a video of a guy doing a long trip in very cold weather vs same trip in warm weather - https://youtu.be/UskzfQJt2Bc

Few EVs use resistance heating and many that do have seat heaters so you do not have to heat the entire cabin, only the occupants.
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Old 11-09-2022, 03:04 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,261 posts, read 5,139,849 times
Reputation: 17759
I addressed the difference (realy non-difference) of range reduction of EVs vs ICEs. No argument there.

ICE vehicles re-direct otherwise wasted engine block heat to heat the cabin (no additional fuel usage), while EVs use resistance heating &/or heat pump tech, but that takes electrical energy to run the pump too, detracting from the "fuel supply"....Both ICEs and EVs use fuel and battery storage respectively for AC.

Automatically keeping the battery warm in EVs reminds me of using a horse for transportation...The nice thing about a horse is that it always starts easily in cold weather. The bad thing is that it keeps consuming hay even when you're not driving it. ....It's also easier to keep the EV's garage clean than the horse's stall, but then the EV doesn't keep your garden supplied with fertilzer.

All engineering solutions represent compromises among competing factors.
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