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I'm just saying, no environmentalist is going to take an SUV owner who claims to be "living green" seriously unless they work for the park service. You're free to think whatever you want. But defending SUV owners is sort of like defending an animal rights activist who goes around kicking puppies.
First off, I'm not defending SUV owners. They are big boys and girls who can defend themselves when necessary. I hate the damn things ( SUVS that is ) and I'd be in favor of abolishing them. That being said, consider the case where an SUV driver drives just 75 miles a week, and the Prius driver drives a US average 250 miles a week. IMO, the SUV driver in this example is being every bit as green ( if not more so ) than the SUV driver.
seattlenextyear wrote:
I also assumed people on the green living forum would be seriously discussing environmental issues.
Your assumptions are causing you to base your arguments on something that may or may not be true. Back in my days as a saleperson, one of the first things we were taught in sales training was that when making an assumption you are making an ass out of u and me. I encourage you to keep that in mind when making assumptions.
sterlinggirl wrote:
Its ok if they use 50 gallons a month in their Prius, but if you use the same amount in a Yukon you're an uncaring ***** who is destroying the planet.
In this example, even though both drivers are consuming the same amount of fuel, the Yukon driver is putting more wear and tear on the highway infrastructure by driving a heavier vehichle. With oil prices so high, asphalt prices have not only escalated dramatically, but shortages of asphalt are beginning to crop up as well. Many highway repair projects are being put on hold. I think it behooves us to do everything we can to make the highways last longer. IMO, in this regard, the Prius driver is being more responsible.
Last edited by CosmicWizard; 07-30-2008 at 08:33 AM..
I'm just saying, no environmentalist is going to take an SUV owner who claims to be "living green" seriously unless they work for the park service. You're free to think whatever you want. But defending SUV owners is sort of like defending an animal rights activist who goes around kicking puppies.
IMO - SUV owners don't need to be defended at all. What have they done that is so horrible?
SUV's are not a bad choice. Depends on where you live and what you need it for. If you are getting a Range Rover just because it looks good and you have a 40 mile commute by yourself in a mild climate area, yes, thats a terrible choice. If you live have a family of 6, I'd like to see a good gas mileage sedan that could accomodate that like a mid size SUV with 3rd row seating. Not gonna happen.
Oh wait, I forgot that the over the edge environuts think having 4 children is a huge environmental sin.
Its ok if they use 50 gallons a month in their Prius, but if you use the same amount in a Yukon you're an uncaring ***** who is destroying the planet.
In this example, even though both drivers are consuming the same amount of fuel, the Yukon driver is putting more wear and tear on the highway infrastructure by driving a heavier vehichle. With oil prices so high, asphalt prices have not only escalated dramatically, but shortages of asphalt are beginning to crop up as well. Many highway repair projects are being put on hold. I think it behooves us to do everything we can to make the highways last longer. IMO, in this regard, the Prius driver is being more responsible.
So you're saying a Yukon wears out the road more in fifty gallons 750 vs 2500 miles for the Prius? If that's the case, then you just contradicted yourself in this statement:
Quote:
consider the case where an SUV driver drives just 75 miles a week, and the Prius driver drives a US average 250 miles a week. IMO, the SUV driver in this example is being every bit as green ( if not more so ) than the SUV driver.
Figuring this out by ton mile would be interesting, but I don't have the time right now.....
So you're saying a Yukon wears out the road more in fifty gallons 750 vs 2500 miles for the Prius? If that's the case, then you just contradicted yourself in this statement:
I'll be the first to admit that I am full of contradictions ( maybe I should be a politician ). What I meant to say was; using a mile per mile comparison, a Yukon puts more stress on the highway than a Prius.
Well, I have an SUV (have to fit people and dog into it for trips and haul items for business) and a small sedan. My SUV uses Flex Fuel, wh/ I thought was a terrific idea when I bought it, as I was trying to make a responsible decision and thought ethanol was the way to go. That was a great decision - if I lived in Brazil, where ethanol powers over 90% of the vehicles . . . and is made from sugar cane. Little did I know that in our country, our government would be subsidizing corn for ethanol (wh/ has created a whole list of problems).
It infuriates me that someone would be so arrogant as to assert I am not socially responsible b/c I own an SUV. First of all, I telecommute as does my hubby, so we are NOT on the roads every day. And when I use my vehicle to haul items, I combine all trips and errands at one time. I don't even get into my car and drive once a week. Yep. My neighbors ask if we are agoraphobes b/c we don't drive but a few times a week. So even if my SUV is large and doesn't get but 18 miles/gallon, I am not driving even 50 miles a week on average. I pack five people and a dog into that SUV when we travel . . . and that is a lot cheaper and better for the environment than using 2 cars or paying for plane tickets for 5 people.
This attitude of making assumptions about other people's lives . . . and pointing fingers and acting self-righteous re: other people's choices about vehicles . . . is exactly what I mean about vigilantes who think they have all the answers and feel they have the right to dictate how the whole world lives. Sorry. I don't need someone else playing cop about my choices in life. My philosophy: You do your thing and I will do mine and don't assume you know what my life is about.
Its true. If you want to spend $40,000 on a vehicle that's going to sit in your driveway most of the time, that's your prerogative. It seems like a waste of money and metal to me.
It's my prerogative to believe that buying and driving an SUV undermines a lot of environmental progress. And I just won't take an SUV owner who claims to be an environmentalist seriously. Just like you wouldn't take someone who eats steak twice a week seriously as a vegetarian.
If we were in an automobile forum, this would be a fine conversation. We're not, which is seriously what is confusing me. A lot.
Its true. If you want to spend $40,000 on a vehicle that's going to sit in your driveway most of the time, that's your prerogative. It seems like a waste of money and metal to me.
It's my prerogative to believe that buying and driving an SUV undermines a lot of environmental progress. And I just won't take an SUV owner who claims to be an environmentalist seriously. Just like you wouldn't take someone who eats steak twice a week seriously as a vegetarian.
If we were in an automobile forum, this would be a fine conversation. We're not, which is seriously what is confusing me. A lot.
It shouldn't. There are many people who are environmentally conscious and have been for decades who may not agree with you on some of your more extreme stances, and this discussion is entirely appropriate to a "green" forum (if it weren't, your comments regarding SUV drivers wouldn't be appropriate here, either). That doesn't mean that they aren't "green" enough, and being disagreed with shouldn't confuse you - if it does, and you hang out on online forums at all, you've got bigger problems than the environment that need immediate attention.
Food for thought: Even if there is a gas guzzling, highway destroying, safety hazard SUV ( these descriptions are just my opinion and may or may not have any basis in reality ) with 4 passengers in it, it still seems greener than a one passenger Prius going down the highway. I don't think you can determine someones degree of environmental concern based soley on what they CHOOSE to drive. It's only one aspect of the whole picture. There are many ways to express concern for the environment. Even an SUV which I admittedly despise, can be an expression of environmental concern in certain situations.
An anti-SUV stance is NOT extreme amongst environmentalists, its one of the more moderate views. Extreme is sleeping in Sequoias or living off the grid. Living off of nuts and roots. So, if I were actually extreme, I'd be writing this message using smoke signals or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady
It shouldn't. There are many people who are environmentally conscious and have been for decades who may not agree with you on some of your more extreme stances, and this discussion is entirely appropriate to a "green" forum (if it weren't, your comments regarding SUV drivers wouldn't be appropriate here, either). That doesn't mean that they aren't "green" enough, and being disagreed with shouldn't confuse you - if it does, and you hang out on online forums at all, you've got bigger problems than the environment that need immediate attention.
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). What I meant to say was; using a mile per mile comparison, a Yukon puts more stress on the highway than a Prius.
