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I was interested in getting thoughts on natural gas fireplaces - particularly the ventless kind - in terms of how efficient and safe they are (or aren't). I was considering getting one for my finished basement because there just aren't enough radiators down there. We already have a gas line in place because the former owners had a stove down there at one time.
I've heard some mixed reviews on them - particularly the ventless kind - some people say that they are more efficient and safer than the vented kind, but of course, others say that it increases nitrogen, and increases indoor air pollution.
I can't explain the technicalities behind it, but a ventless natural gas fireplace will create a LOT of moisture in your house. You'll also be able to smell it.
Keep in mind that, no matter how you cut it, an unvented natural gas fireplace is "venting" into the house. It may be extremely efficient, but that's still what's happening.
The moisture from a ventless fireplace is created as a result of the combustion process; i.e., H2O is a product of the gas/oxygen burning.
I've used ventless wall-mounted heater units or ventless fireplace units with excellent results and safety in everyplace from a residence to a remote cabin to a restaurant. The required oxygen depletion sensors are reliable, and will shut off the unit if oxygen levels go below a safe point. Some states building codes will not allow these units, however, so you need to check on that before buying/installing.
As with any open flame heating unit inside a residence, you should have a CO sensor in the area for safety and peace of mind that the unit is operating correctly.
Some of the unvented gas fireplace "logs" have serious odor issues. None of them burn as cleanly as a wall heater. Wall heaters are also less expensive and take less space. FWIW, the blue flame heaters are less clean burning than the glowing panel heaters.
You'll find that when you mention "unvented" you'll start a religious war. There are some folks who are adamant that unvented means filthy, dangerous, and a threat to life. They are not, when used properly. Byproducts of combustion are water vapor and CO2 when the burn is clean. In general a candle is FAR more polluting to the air than the output of an unvented heater. If you stick an unvented heated in a sealed room, then yes, it'll have problems and either shut off or kill you. Fill a room with water and it'll do the same thing. If you use common sense they are reliably safe.
If you had said you wanted a propane heater in a basement, I would be mildly uncomfortable. Propane gas sinks, while natural gas from pipelines rises. I'd keep propane appliances out of a basement. In any event, you are depending on sensors CO, depleted oxygen, gas, etc. to verify that conditions are safe. CO and gas alarms are available at the home stores.
We have a propane wall unit that I had installed primarily as a backup for power outages, but also to help on the really cold days when the heat pump isn't efficient.
They are more efficient as 100% of the heat stays in the house. One thing to keep in mind is efficiency does equal savings unless you're comparing identical energy sources such as this comparison.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks
I can't explain the technicalities behind it, but a ventless natural gas fireplace will create a LOT of moisture in your house. You'll also be able to smell it.
Keep in mind that, no matter how you cut it, an unvented natural gas fireplace is "venting" into the house. It may be extremely efficient, but that's still what's happening.
Interesting point... Natural gas burns pretty clean. Mostly or largely complete combustion. The by-products of complete combustion are CO2, H2O and heat. It's counter-intuitive, but it kinda makes sense that an unvented NG flame would function as a humidifier...
Bought an old mobile with a broken furnace. A new system would have cost me as much as the mobile home is worth, $1500 or so. I bought a ventless gas heater, hung it on the wall and it does the trick. The trailer is nowhere close to being airtight so I wasn't too worried but I did install a couple good carbon monoxide detectors.
Bought an old mobile with a broken furnace. A new system would have cost me as much as the mobile home is worth, $1500 or so. I bought a ventless gas heater, hung it on the wall and it does the trick. The trailer is nowhere close to being airtight so I wasn't too worried but I did install a couple good carbon monoxide detectors.
On the CO subject even with a well ventilated living space CO is still bad. Long term exposure at slightly elevated levels can be just as harmful as short term exposure at really high levels. CO bonds with the hemoglobin in your blood preventing it from supplying oxygen. The only real cure for this is time. The longer you are exposed at dangerous levels the worse it gets and you may not even notice over a prolonged period as the symptoms are flu like. By the time some people realize there is something wrong it's too late.
CO is tasteless, odorless and colorless. It has almost the same specific gravity as "Air" so it will easily travel on the natural air currents inside a house.
For all those reasons it can be very dangerous. As mentioned this is usually the result of a malfunctioning system that uses flame. Usually because of incomplete combustion.
You should have CO detectors in any home unless you have nothing but electric.
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