Greensboro Triumph Center (Charlotte, Raleigh, Winston-Salem: rent, how much, construction)

[gsoboi]

Originally Posted by roanoker 4

The only news I've heard was that a developer was looking at the site to develop somewhere. If a building permit has been issued, then we would know if anything is concrete. I remember November'07 was the announcement. So far it sounds very "wishful thinking". Sometimes the delay can be a positive sign.

true....I know some people think just because this project has been quiet for the past 3 months that its dead. We havent heard about Triad Tower in over a year and a half and its still being planned. I contacted Downtown Greensboro, Inc on the matter and I didnt get a response so that tells me something is still in the works. Also you would have heard in the news already if plans for this had been scrapped. Ray Gibbs, former DGI president warned that its going to take a long time to put the pieces together for a project this big and it is big especially for Greensboro. You would expect a project of this scope to be in a city such as Charlotte or Atlanta. As stated early Charlotte does have a similar project underway (EpiCentre). One reason why some are skeptical about the project is because the Triumph Center is suppose to be bigger in scope than EpiCentre. There are three different options which vary in size and height. The smallest option is about the size of EpiCenter and the largest is suppose to dwarf that according to an inside source. The project is expected to be a high-rise/mid-rise cluster. One of the attractions for the Greensboro Triumph Center is suppose to be a restuarant/music venue that seats over a thousand and would attract national acts. I may be crazy but to me thats the description of a House of Blues. This project was described as being "a destination for the southeast region" so I guess I shouldnt be surprised if something like that were being proposed in the project. One inside source told me that this is a city and maybe a region changing project if they go with the full scale version. He said this project could turn Greensboro into a real destination city. There were even rumors going around at one time that this could be a Downtown Disney because the main unidentified developement company involved with this is in Orlando, Florida. Disney has also publically stated they are considering downtown districts with hotels in select cities.

Ray Gibbs did say if the Triumph Center project proceeds forward, it could attract "secondary downtown projects". What those secondary projects are is anybodys guess. This would be a huge deal for Greensboro. Oh and another thing. I was told that because of the BIG impact this project would have on the city, there is an element in the city that doesnt want this in Greensboro. If you thought the fight against the downtown baseball stadium was nasty, you aint seen nothing yet.

[roanoker 4]

I was especially impressed with the "entertainment" feature of this proposed project. I don't see the need for another Hotel for downtown Greensboro until more people stay there when they come to town. I have always thought downtown Greensboro has a huge potential but its missing the feature of
a "Downtown Disney" type area. More restaurants, bars, nightclubs, movies,
offices is key. Here in Roanoke a less ambitious plan is in the planning stages with a re:design of the city market area main building, with more bars, nightclubs, shops, outdoor/indoor restaurants with balconies, etc. With the success of the nightclubs, restaurants in Downtown Greensboro I think it would be a big hit!!

[gsoboi]

Downtown Greensboro has come along way. South Elm Street is full of restaurants and nightclubs but its time for downtown to take the next step. Currently downtown Greensboro has over 40 restaurants. I think the goal is to have over 80 restaurants.
I would love to see more developments go vertical because I think downtown Greensboro should look more like a big city. If we could get two or three towers between 18 and 30 stories that would be great but even if developments were between 8 and 10 stories, that would help create alot of urban density downtown and help fill in some of the sea of parking lots. These developments should also promote street level activity. More importanly, future developments should go vertical because available downtown land is becoming scarce. Downtown advocates want downtown Greensboro to have a residential population of 5,000. In order to accomplish that, residential development must go vertical. If downtown had a popualtion of 5,000, the center-city would definatly have a super market but would also have big chain stores such as an urban Target or an urban Home Depot. That is were Id like to see downtown Greensboro head. But I also think city leaders need to do more to attract office development downtown. Downtown Greensboro should be the center of business in the city, not the airport area. Maybe city leaders can attract companies downtown with incentives. It would be great if Greensboro's new bank "NewBridge Bank" would move from its suburban office and build a 10 story corporate headquarters downtown, preferably next to the baseball stadium that will bear its name next year.

I also would love to see more "pocket" public spaces and more water features downtown. public spaces are very important for downtown because they help promote street level activity and they attract events and people downtown. Another thing the city should focus on is downtown architecture. With exception to Southside, im not seeing alot of good architecture in the new downtown developments. Developers really need to come up with some bold designs and I think we need to have more sleek urban designs such as the Natuzzi Building and Showplace in downtown High Point. Everything going up seems to be early 20th century retro. Its really important that Greensboro has an imagine that its a progress city of the the future. Here is an example of what I am talking about. This is a rendering of the new art museum in Roanoke, VA. This is the kind of bold architecture Id like to see in downtown Greensboro. Maybe the convention center planned in the Triuimph Center could look similar. We dont need another Koury Convention Center.

[roanoker 4]

I agree that downtown Greensboro needs to go vertical. Greensboro should
try to entice businesses to locate there. I like the new condos going up with their outdoor balconies. Definately, Greensboro needs something bold downtown like a cultural building, maybe a performance hall, instead of another boring convention center. Randall Stout is the architect for Roanokes' new Art Museum. He designed the Disney Performance Hall in L.A., which uses similar materials, design at Roanokes' museum. So far I've seen many people coming downtown just to look at this flying saucer that has
overwhelmed downtown. Maybe Greensboro can get a unique type of vertical tower similar to the Soleil Center going up in Raleigh, maybe not as tall.
If Roanoke can put up a major art museum with about half million area residents, Greensboro can do something with over a million!!

[gsoboi]

yes downtown Greensboro needs "landmark" architecture. Architecture does make a big difference in how downtown is perceived. Since the Greensboro Triumph Center is expected to cost more than $300 million, I would expect to see some great architecture in this if it gets built. But it is depressing to see that Greensboro's skyline has not grown in 18 years. Alot of people are ready for Greensboro to look like a real urban city. Believe it or not, people judge the vibrancy of a city by its skyline rightfully or not and Greensboro has a small skyline for a city its size.

[spark240]

Wow, all this is scaring me away from looking at Greensboro. I think Greensboro downtown ballpark is pretty nice (I have quibbles, but I'm a connoisseur) and absolutely enriches the city... but a new 20-story hotel tower sounds very unappealing. And I think the Roanoke art museum is really, really awful. Roanoke is an architectural jumble already, but the crashed-saucer museum is making it worse. With no rational relationship to anything around it, it's like a big middle finger to the cityscape. And some people want to do that to Greensboro too?

[roanoker 4]

Originally Posted by spark240

Wow, all this is scaring me away from looking at Greensboro. I think Greensboro downtown ballpark is pretty nice (I have quibbles, but I'm a connoisseur) and absolutely enriches the city... but a new 20-story hotel tower sounds very unappealing. And I think the Roanoke art museum is really, really awful. Roanoke is an architectural jumble already, but the crashed-saucer museum is making it worse. With no rational relationship to anything around it, it's like a big middle finger to the cityscape. And some people want to do that to Greensboro too?

Your comments are quite common in these parts. The "flying saucer" has raised a lot of eyebrows for sure. I suppose the best way to approach something like this is to see it as Art. Art is supposed to give one a different
impression of the world around them. You sound like someone who would rather go to a baseball game than an art museum anyway. Enjoy!!

[yourhometriad]

We won't ever see anything like the Roanoke Museum here- too modern for the conservative majority.

Greensboro has what you need. And if it doesn't, its location makes it close to anywhere that does. Plus the property is much cheaper here. Come on down!

[TallblondeguyFL]

[quote=gsoboi;2021771]...I would love to see more developments go vertical because I think downtown Greensboro should look more like a big city. If we could get two or three towers between 18 and 30 stories that would be great but even if developments were between 8 and 10 stories, that would help create alot of urban density downtown and help fill in some of the sea of parking lots. These developments should also promote street level activity... ...I also would love to see more "pocket" public spaces and more water features downtown. public spaces are very important for downtown because they help promote street level activity and they attract events and people downtown. Another thing the city should focus on is downtown architecture. With exception to Southside, im not seeing alot of good architecture in the new downtown developments. ......

gsoboi.... It's apparent you are really "into" skyscrapers. Though my main home is in Ft.Laud, I still consider GSO home, and I am there often. That being said, I see the same trend in GSO that I see here in Ft.Laud - lot's of beautiful skyscrapers, dotting the skyline, making such a beautiful view from the highway approaches..... and a 60% empty rate.

Yep, skyscrapers are pretty. Skyscrapers make the city look big. Fully occupied skyscrapers may even generate other businesses to develop in the area...but ONLY if there is a demand for the space.

In GSO right now, both High Rise and Low Rise office space sits empty (with conflicting reports reaching 50 to 60%, depending on the source.) Usually the GSO Gov't sources have much lower numbers....there's a reason for that, they want GSO to appear more in demand and to have a higher business-occupancy rate than it really has.

One of the lessons that GSOs mis-managed city government, (with it's ever-increasing conflicts of interest and questionable practices,) has never learned is that you will NOT generate business into downtown GSO unless you provide substancial incentives. This prompts businesses to build and/or relocate if the incentives include tax breaks, infrastructure discounts, even utility discounts...

For the most part, the city of GSO is not doing that. Businesses are leaving the downtown area and relocating to the outskirts, or to less expensive developments in High Point or near Piedmont Triad Int'l Airport.

Will the downtown area grow? Yes, eventually. Will it grow fast? No, not with the current trends in place. Can it grow faster? Absolutely, but only IF you give businesses a good reason to consider GSO "home".

[Queen City Lover]

Greensboro has a VERY small downtown and a VERY small skyline.....Winston-Salem has a much better skyline...and I am from Charlotte.

Greensboro is a nice town...but real slow and the growth downtown shows that as well.