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I got the figure for the estimated cost of building I-73.
The current I-385 project costs $65 million. That's adding one lane in each direction, plus repaving with concrete for 5 miles. The estimated cost to rebuild the just I-85/385 interchange is a staggering $285 million (in 2010 dollars). Those two projects alone are $350 million dollars.
Now you want to build a 14 mile concrete highway with 9-10 exits. Half the highway has to be built on land that has not been purchased.
The way you are fudging those numbers...you must be a politician...aren't ya??
How would I-73 compare anywhere near what the OP was referring to? You're talking about totally different areas, totally different uses, totally different already up infrastructure, and a lot of other variables. The route that he planned here is basically already half way built, with just a little over half than that needing some improvements.....and what does that interchange have to do with anything, I'm confused ...I can least ten reasons right off hand how these have nothing in common and shouldn't be compared, but I think you already do too, but was just using it for arguments sake.
So no, I'm not fudging any numbers, and I don't want to be a politician...they act somewhat similar to you
First of all this is not the 1960's anymore. If I-385 was proposed today, I'm sure it would be shot down. There is just no money. I don't understand why people cannot comprehend that.
Your pessimism knows no bounds does it? 385 is perhaps the best thing to ever happen to Greenville, Greenville county, or even the upstate, and you would be on that side of the fence voting it down?
I'll tell you what I can comprehend from this, and that's that you would be so critical of any improvement that costs a little bit of money, you would do anything to stop it. Considering how against development you are, I'm surprised you don't live in Anderson.
Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRET04
SCDOT Total Revenue 2010 - 2011 (in Millions)
Motor Fuel User Fees - 445.0
Interest - 7.0
Toll Revenues - 8.0
Maintenance Trust Fund - 50.6
Misc. (Permits, Sale of Property & other) - 50.7
Interagency Transfers - 2.8
CTC Donor County Transfer/SIB Transfer - (12.3)
Debt Service - (63.9)
Total State Revenues - 487.9
Federal Reimbursement Revenues - 655.5
Total Estimated Revenues - 1143.4 Million
That year, SCDOT's operating budget was just 6 million shy of what it took in. Or 1.137 Billion. Most of that money was spent on maintenance.
Funny you should post the income, but not the expenses. All you're showing everyone is that they took in a bit over one billion in a year. Oh, and also you didn't post what their savings is sitting on either. Even if it's true that they only saved 6 million in a year, if you put that in savings that can come up to a lot of money over time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRET04
We would have to significantly raise taxes on gasoline to pay for any new major projects...since you don't want this to be a toll road. Which is curious to me since this interstate really only helps local people.
The interstate would be good for the folks who live in and around Anderson. There are so many projects that are needed across this country that will help people, but will never get off the drawing board because we have spent way too much money.
As I basically said before, I'd need to see the full report on spending/saving to even consider confirming that. I have to agree with what others have said of 185 and would say about a toll road, it would make the route essentially irrelevant while being a loss for all the money spent on it. The locals here either do not have the money to pay extra tolls or will refuse to pay it...just look at the route yourself, US 29 would run almost paralell half the route, and then there are ways to cut around it in other areas...what you're suggesting is a seemingly innocent way for you to give it the kiss of death...period.
I am glad that you finally acknowledge that it would be good for Anderson, but your pessimism is just kicking in overdrive. Almost every county in the state has projects going on at this time, and the average number per county is more or less around 4-5, with some having more than that. If we have no money left, than why are most counties currently having tens or even hundreds of millions worth of projects going on at the same time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRET04
I just read a story that Senator Reid is backing a bullet train that starts 100 miles from Los Angeles in the desert and ends in Las Vegas. The company wants something like a $2.5B taxpayer funded loan to get started. Unbelievable!
The US National Debt is almost $16 Trillion dollars with slightly over $2T in revenue. In five years it's estimated to be $21T.
If the need is there, then the support should be there. I do not live in either areas, have only lived near LA once when I was very young, and have not been to either area in over 20 years. Our country is far behind on this sort of transportation and technology...incase you hadn't heard Japan has MagLev trains that can go triple that speed. There has been a significant problem with this country and trashing public transportation for cars. The price tag may be appaling, but we may be facing worst problems if we allow the world to pass us by.
There are ways to cut out spending while keeping enough to maintain and even grow where it's needed. Take out a couple hundred billion from the wars we're in right now, cut down on governmental pay and benefits from the very top, close some of the redundant departments (IRS, CIA, etc), and make a few other changes and we could be SAVING money...though from the way you speak, you'd find another reason why we couldn't grow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRET04
Now if you want to talk toll road again, get some bonds and pray this doesn't turn out to be like I-185. Don't forget to convince the environmentalists of the reason you want to destroy farm land and Lord knows what else down in Anderson to build this.
Pray my @ss...you know perfectly well it would be the same thing over again, and that's exactly what you hope...that it would be proposed as a toll road, the developers would take 185 as an example, and promptly state it's not worth it. My faith rests that this road could be pulled off, less than what you predicted, and not have to be a toll road. As for environmental reasons, I haven't the slightest clue what you might be talking about. There are no farms here, and I could hardly imagine any coming up there...they don't even have the zoning anyway, if it is anything it's residential.
All in all, your post tells me how pessimistic and conservative you are. If you're so against growth and change, why don't you go live somewhere tiny like Antreville...it's not even on most maps, you would love it...their books are easily balanced, they're unicorporated and spend basically no money there.
The I-85/I-385 interchange (an expensive project) will be redesigned and built long before a new interstate highway in Anderson County could be considered in any SCDOT budget — unless a significant source of revenue is suddenly discovered. Since revenue is gained from voting taxpayers, don't expect that to happen anytime soon.
All in all, your post tells me how pessimistic and conservative you are. If you're so against growth and change, why don't you go live somewhere tiny like Antreville...it's not even on most maps, you would love it...their books are easily balanced, they're unicorporated and spend basically no money there.
I don't even know where to begin upstateforchanger. You come into this thread and start insulting me and telling me where to move to? You do realize that this post is basically fantasy right? Take a chill pill man.
You don't think there will be opposition to this interstate from people who are much more knowledgeable than me, yet you can't even handle a few facts? Why is it that every time a conservative person posts facts, that a more liberal person gets upset and starts insulting?
The info I gave about the SCDOT comes right from their website, look it up. If you read my post, I stated what they spent. All but 6 million of the revenue. So to make it clearer, they have just 6 million set aside last year for your project.
As for my estimate of the cost, again, I used the I-73 project as a basis. Since this I-985 project won't even get started for a decade at best, I think my numbers are low. For instance, NC has a I-26 connector they want to build. The connector is apx. 5 miles long, with just 1.2 miles of NEW construction....start date 2020...cost $400 - $600 million.
As for I-385 not being built. I said in my post, if you take time to read it, that it probably would not be built if suggested today. If 385 had not been built decades ago, then all of the growth would not have come. Yes I understand that is not a good thing, not to have growth.
I am not trying to degrade the fine people who live in Anderson as you try to make it appear that I am. If our country was not up to it's eyeballs in debt that we may never payoff in our lifetimes, then I would say build it. I love our interstate system. Eisenhower was a genius when he proposed it and thank God he did. This country became great because of it. But we live in a different country now. We have to pay down this debt, upgrade our decaying infrastructure, then talk about building new.
But carry on friend if you wish...don't let facts get in your way. God Bless.
The I-85/I-385 interchange (an expensive project) will be redesigned and built long before a new interstate highway in Anderson County could be considered in any SCDOT budget — unless a significant source of revenue is suddenly discovered. Since revenue is gained from voting taxpayers, don't expect that to happen anytime soon.
Well maybe the OP plans on winning the mega-lottery this Friday to pay for the interstate project.
The OP is against the idea of making this "spur" a toll road. The OP says that this road is needed to help the people in that area and to spur growth. This road will not help the rest of the state, just the local area.
Our more liberal friends to the north, the Gov of NC has proposed adding a toll to I-95. Why you may ask? Here's her quote:
Quote:
"There is not a fairy in heaven that sprinkles transportation dollars on North Carolina, and says, 'Here it is,'" said Governor Perdue.
Already North Carolina has the fifth highest gas tax rate in the county. There's been talk of adding fares on our ferries and tolls on I-95. The governor said that the toll may be necessary.
So the governor said the money has to come from somewhere else, namely, the people of North Carolina.
Quote:
"That the citizens of this state have the courage and the ability to understand you've gotta pay for infrastructure improvements, that they don't come easily."
So it's taxes or tolls. If you never use that highway, should you still pay for it? Or should they just toll the users of the highway?
I say cut the budget and find another way to pay for improvements. But we know that will never happen. Makes too much sense.
The Mayors are absolutely right that highway expansion should be a low priority - because highways as we have traditionally built them in this country have been perceived as free of charge. 80% of Mayors feel this way most likely because in 80% of cities, it would be a gross misallocation of public resources to invest in brand new "free" highways. In many urban cores, highways can be a disruptive, expensive, and inefficient way to move people. This is why, ultimately, many legs of the Interstate System (where tolls are prohibited) within cities were never built.
But highways with their own variable user fees and revenue streams can make a lot of sense, even within cities. These can be highways that pay for themselves, have limited congestion, and provide rights-of-way for faster transit. Instead of being a drain on the budget, they can be self-maintaining and provide substantial economic benefits.
Americans enjoy an incredible level of mobility due to our extensive highway network. But that network is deteriorating because we are not spending enough to adequately maintain it. The lack of funding to maintain the network is directly traceable to a lack of adequate user fees. We should be smart enough not to make that same mistake again.
Well maybe the OP plans on winning the mega-lottery this Friday to pay for the interstate project.
The OP is against the idea of making this "spur" a toll road. The OP says that this road is needed to help the people in that area and to spur growth. This road will not help the rest of the state, just the local area.
Our more liberal friends to the north, the Gov of NC has proposed adding a toll to I-95. Why you may ask? Here's her quote:
Already North Carolina has the fifth highest gas tax rate in the county. There's been talk of adding fares on our ferries and tolls on I-95. The governor said that the toll may be necessary.
So the governor said the money has to come from somewhere else, namely, the people of North Carolina.
So it's taxes or tolls. If you never use that highway, should you still pay for it? Or should they just toll the users of the highway?
I say cut the budget and find another way to pay for improvements. But we know that will never happen. Makes too much sense.
If it was to be a toll road, it absolutely could not be for the lower half of the route as it would be easily avoidable, the upper portion I think could have some consideration, but keep in mind the mentality people have about tolls will reduce usage and development.
Sc gax taxes are some of the lowest yet we have some of the most roads. It needs to increase by 7-10 cents, we will still be cheaper than any of our neighbors.
Sc gax taxes are some of the lowest yet we have some of the most roads. It needs to increase by 7-10 cents, we will still be cheaper than any of our neighbors.
Quote:
Gov. Nikki Haley said Tuesday she opposes raising the state’s gasoline tax to increase revenue for the cash-strapped S.C. Department of Transportation.
...Haley said the agency needs to get its financial house in order.
The department has been under the microscope since it recently revealed that it was having trouble paying bills. Some contractors were overdue for payments for road work. The federal government advanced the state $52 million to help ease the crunch.
DOT officials are working on plans to address financial problems but have been criticized by some lawmakers over priorities. The department’s board approved a $344 million bond package for new roads earlier this year, including a new freeway to Myrtle Beach and an I-26 connector to the Columbia airport, at a time when the state’s existing roads badly need maintenance, some lawmakers say.
We were already aware of Nikki Haley being ***** for the birds
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...I can least ten reasons right off hand how these have nothing in common and shouldn't be compared, but I think you already do too, but was just using it for arguments sake.
