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Carolina's student population is not in the census numbers for calculating permanent residents with a college degree. Even if they were, it would only be worth about 2.5 percentage points on the high side.
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Maybe you could enlighten me on how they determine who the permanent residents are? As a graduate student living in Clemson during this past census, I don't recall any box to check that said I was a 12 month resident, renting on a 12 month lease, but not to count me because, while I was working, I was also a student with a college degree. Do adults taking night classes not count on a census either?
I'm not saying that this significantly inflates their numbers, but it would obviously help.
Maybe you could enlighten me on how they determine who the permanent residents are? As a graduate student living in Clemson during this past census, I don't recall any box to check that said I was a 12 month resident, renting on a 12 month lease, but not to count me because, while I was working, I was also a student with a college degree. Do adults taking night classes not count on a census either?
I'm not saying that this significantly inflates their numbers, but it would obviously help.
I did not expect this thread to turn into a dissection of Columbia's statistics. Even though I have asked many times, Greenville residents are more interested in tearing down Columbia rather than discussing how to get better. If you want to be enlightened, read the many different discussions online about how college students are counted, there is no clear answer. The first question to ask is if a student will complete a form. If he does, there are questions on the form to make an attempt at avoiding a double count. So, let's suppose that Columbia's Ed stats are overstated due to the university, it would then make sense that the average income levels would be understated. In the end, the stats show Richland County with a college educated population at 20% higher than Greenville, maybe the true number is 18%. It does not help Greenville raise the education level by 1 person regardless of the makeup of Columbia, charleston, charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta or any other city. The point of this thread was to show how Greenville's leaders are working to enhance the creative class to be better prepared for the future. Why is it that any positive news about Columbia gets trashed by Greenville residents. Are you so concerned that Columbia may not be as bad as you want t believe so much that you don't want to talk about positive developments in Greenville? To me, this is exactly what Greenville needs to do so that the creative class jobs will not pass you by.
I did not expect this thread to turn into a dissection of Columbia's statistics. Even though I have asked many times, Greenville residents are more interested in tearing down Columbia rather than discussing how to get better. If you want to be enlightened, read the many different discussions online about how college students are counted, there is no clear answer. The first question to ask is if a student will complete a form. If he does, there are questions on the form to make an attempt at avoiding a double count. So, let's suppose that Columbia's Ed stats are overstated due to the university, it would then make sense that the average income levels would be understated. In the end, the stats show Richland County with a college educated population at 20% higher than Greenville, maybe the true number is 18%. It does not help Greenville raise the education level by 1 person regardless of the makeup of Columbia, charleston, charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta or any other city. The point of this thread was to show how Greenville's leaders are working to enhance the creative class to be better prepared for the future. Why is it that any positive news about Columbia gets trashed by Greenville residents. Are you so concerned that Columbia may not be as bad as you want t believe so much that you don't want to talk about positive developments in Greenville? To me, this is exactly what Greenville needs to do so that the creative class jobs will not pass you by.
I have not bashed Columbia in this thread. I'm not sure where you're deriving that from in my comments about census counting and graduate degree programs. Stating that Columbia has graduate schools doesn't seem offensive to me. Saying the same thing about Charleston apparently went unnoticed..? It's no secret that Greenville has a lacking of higher education infrastructure. Fortunately, that seems to be changing with Clemson and USC's additions downtown, a possible USC-Upstate "campus", and other Clemson programs throughout the City. This was all noted in my first post about Greenville finally catching the graduate school 'wave'. It will hopefully also help Greenville retain some of these future degree-holders.
This acknowledgement by the City is definitely a major deal, and huge positive for Greenville. No denying or hiding that fact here. I'm not sure how this is "positive news about Columbia" that is "getting trashed by Greenville residents", as you say. This is OLD news for Columbia. This is GREENVILLE news. Fortunately, I trust that Greenville's leaders will be successful in this venture, as they have a proven track record of being with other initiatives in the past.
I did not expect this thread to turn into a dissection of Columbia's statistics. Even though I have asked many times, Greenville residents are more interested in tearing down Columbia rather than discussing how to get better. If you want to be enlightened, read the many different discussions online about how college students are counted, there is no clear answer. The first question to ask is if a student will complete a form. If he does, there are questions on the form to make an attempt at avoiding a double count. So, let's suppose that Columbia's Ed stats are overstated due to the university, it would then make sense that the average income levels would be understated. In the end, the stats show Richland County with a college educated population at 20% higher than Greenville, maybe the true number is 18%. It does not help Greenville raise the education level by 1 person regardless of the makeup of Columbia, charleston, charlotte, Raleigh, Atlanta or any other city. The point of this thread was to show how Greenville's leaders are working to enhance the creative class to be better prepared for the future. Why is it that any positive news about Columbia gets trashed by Greenville residents. Are you so concerned that Columbia may not be as bad as you want t believe so much that you don't want to talk about positive developments in Greenville? To me, this is exactly what Greenville needs to do so that the creative class jobs will not pass you by.
To be fair, I don't think gvillesc has spoken ill of either Columbia or Charleston in this thread.
With that out of the way, is anyone in agreement that perhaps the lower educational attainment figure is a legacy of the region's reliance on the textile and manufacturing industries, and, to a lesser extent, the newer manufacturing sector which probably has a greater need for skilled workers with two-year degrees as opposed to four-year degrees?
With that out of the way, is anyone in agreement that perhaps the lower educational attainment figure is a legacy of the region's reliance on the textile and manufacturing industries, and, to a lesser extent, the newer manufacturing sector which probably has a greater need for skilled workers with two-year degrees as opposed to four-year degrees?
I think that could have a good bit to do with it on the surface of things. A good starting place moving forward, I think, would be to play up things that are already doing well here, namely: engineering. Growth of current firms is good, but also attracting others would be goid-- especially playing up the Clemson proximity and its programs.
TD's presence and growth should also be actively encouraged. They do have big hiring plans, we need to make sure they follow through.
To be fair, I don't think gvillesc has spoken ill of either Columbia or Charleston in this thread.
With that out of the way, is anyone in agreement that perhaps the lower educational attainment figure is a legacy of the region's reliance on the textile and manufacturing industries, and, to a lesser extent, the newer manufacturing sector which probably has a greater need for skilled workers with two-year degrees as opposed to four-year degrees?
To be fair, I did not write that gville trashed Columbia. However, there is a fixation on discrediting what I see as positive metrics for Columbia which was mentioned as information about other SC cities. For some reason, the better part of this thread has been spent on chasing theories as to why Columbia and Charleston have higher numbers rather than understanding where Greenville is going. Could it be that Columbia is not a bad city afterall???
I tend to agree with you that a reliance on manufacturing has kept education levels low. I know of instances where corporate leaders in the upstate did not want to recruit white collar companies because it would drive up labor costs. It is no secret that higher education on average leads to lower unemployment and higher wages. In the upstate, I think higher levels of education would give the area a better chance at Econ development projects that it would otherwise miss. What are some other theories?
The good news is that Greenville can certainly hold its own against those cities, even with those advantages.
I absolutely agree. All statistical differences (mentioned above) between the three main metropolitan areas in SC are negligible, unless you live in one of the supposedly "better-performing" peer cities and want to "put Greenville in its place." There is no less opportunity for creative success in Greenville than in Charleston or Columbia, but some people love to cast doubt because they love one or both of the other cities and strongly dislike Greenville. (Read the OP's previous posts.)
In my opinion, this thread was a baited trap from the original post.
I absolutely agree. All statistical differences (mentioned above) between the three main metropolitan areas in SC are negligible, unless you live in one of the supposedly "better-performing" peer cities and want to "put Greenville in its place." There is no less opportunity for creative success in Greenville than in Charleston or Columbia, but some people love to cast doubt because they love one or both of the other cities and strongly dislike Greenville. (Read the OP's previous posts.)
In my opinion, this thread was a baited trap from the original post.
Sky, you are 100% wrong.
I created this thread for a couple of reasons, first, I am in one who grew up in the upstate, earned my undergrad degree in the upstate, my entire family lives there (some of my wife's family is there) and I am in Charlotte. If a better effort was made years ago to attract more of the creative class jobs, I may still be there and have the opportunity to watch my nephews grow up. Second, this is an interesting topic. Richard Florida has written a lot about the subject and while I don't agree with every assertion made by the theories, it is good to see cities address shortcomings rather than say "well the gap (20%) is not that big, and they have advantages, we are just as good......". Sorry, that is the type of thinking that has kept the upstate behind other areas in the Carolinas in this respect. Charlotte sits at 40% and I would love to see it higher because we need to attract more technology based companies. Even with a 40% rate, Charlotte needs to be better so we can compete for tech jobs with Denver, Seattle, etc....
Sorry that you see this as a baited thread. I am not surprised because if anyone comes on this board without a Greenville chamber mentality, they are quickly discounted. And from experience on this board, a lot of folks from Greenville wrote similar messages when I pointed out over a year or two ago that Proterra was not a company in good financial shape. The response then was that I was jealous because Proterra chose Greenville over Charlotte. As it turns out, Charlotte was wise to see that Proterra was not the economic prize that it claimed to be (and we already have a similar bus company which is also having trouble).
Greenville has done well the past year due to the uptick in manufacturing. While this is a systematic trend, BMW is leading the area. And, I would expect to see BMW grow even larger. While a lot of the TD jobs will be back office, this is a great development. TD does not have the name recognition of a JP Morgan, Bank of America, Well Fargo or the other major financial companies but, it is a good solid institution that will help the area. Having TD makes it an easier sell to attract other similar companies. But, as Dr. Yandle has written more than once, the area needs to improve on the educational attainment. I hope he gets less discounts/excuses when he writes his articles.
Typically large companies like BMW choose areas like SC because the labor is cheap and less educated. At least that's the way my boss remember when the decision was made.
Typically large companies like BMW choose areas like SC because the labor is cheap and less educated. At least that's the way my boss remember when the decision was made.
This is probably true in the broader sense of the nation (like you say). At the end of the day, it doesn't explain why Greenville has a lower degree-retention rate. After all, highly education Charleston landed the massive Boeing manufacturing plant.
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