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Now my concerns are ridiculous . I never remarked about political affiliation/leaning , nor was that a part of my analysis.
Quit taking it personal. I see people say this all the time on CD that the charm is being taken away, I'm just summarizing.
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Originally Posted by NDL
Right , and the concern here is that Greenville might blossom out from nothing very fast.
That's not going to happen.
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Originally Posted by NDL
Stats are inaccurate; people move from NY into Charlotte, and then Charlotte into York County SC, but statistically, it looks like a move from NC to SC.
Most Charlotte residents are natives coming from all over NC and SC, that's just how it is. Same goes for Charleston, Greenville, and Columbia. Many SC counties are bleeding population, where are these people going? New Jersey?
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Originally Posted by NDL
The thing about which I remark is not a phenomenon specific to the South; there are lots of NY'ers who bemoan the "suburbanization of NYC." The blogs are endless; my favorite being "Jeremiah's Vanishing New York."
Back to Greenville: Atlanta and Charlotte's character has been transformed in a very short period of time.
I live a stone's throw away from Charlotte, and I have seen her character evolve, and quickly. If the evolution of the South doesn't bother you, that's fine, but it's inaccurate to say that it hasn't happened.
As for "charm" - it's not the tea sipping about which I speak; it's people having manners; strangers talking with one another while shopping...things like that.
No one said it never happened, I said Charlotte has never been a Charleston type. A lot of the natural southerness that it did grow, was erased by the city, not transplants. Back then northerners weren't coming south. So you can't blame these people.
And people still have manners. Most people are nice to you if you're nice to them. The south has always had a rude side, I don't know why people want to act like we can't be rude. Acting like things are going downhill because someone doesn't speak to you in Publix is just...
Can I chime in with what I mean by “Southern charm”? Yes, the historic buildings, town squares, beautiful azaleas and crape myrtles, and clock towers are a dimension but I really mean the people. The wonderful neighbors who greeted us when we moved in — brought a cake or a bottle of wine, gave us their names and numbers “in case you need something”. The ladies who had a welcome luncheon for me to meet others in the neighborhood. The man from church who invited my husband out to lunch. The small group at our church that has pizza night get togethers “just for fun” occasionally.
I also mean the “charm” of strangers — smiling and saying good morning, holding doors, saying please, thank you, and excuse me, children and teenagers who actually say “yes, sir” and “no, ma’am”. (Just had an actual conversation with a teenager up the street while walking the dog). The random person in a store who says “you dropped something” or “can I help you with that”.
Other than "yes sir" and "no maam", people literally do these things everywhere, all over the country...Are you seriously implying that the south is the only place you ever see these things? So if I drop something in Idaho, the person behind me is just going to walk away and say nothing?...
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Originally Posted by LynchburgLover
Those are the types of personal interactions that were sorely missing in the DC area. It was blowing your horn constantly in traffic, giving “finger salutes” to people that get in your way, dropping the door even though the person behind you was only two steps away. The neighbors who move in and then out a few years later and you never even knew their name. The gargage door goes up, the door goes down, you rarely see the person. The larger a city gets, the easier it is to blend into the anonymity of a crowd. Rudeness has become the norm.
Of course, there are exceptions on both sides but there are stereotypes for a reason. I hope the culture of “Southern charm” can live on and not be destroyed.
It's all subjective. When I moved to DC from SC I was expecting rude, cold, robotic people everywhere and it was the complete opposite. Yeah no one brought me a pie, but plenty of strangers bought me drinks, people were super helpful if I needed directions or recommendations, my coworkers were amazing, I would get "excuse me's", "thank you's", etc. Uber's were nice, strangers were nice in the store, neighbors waved back, even Metro workers weren't tyrants, etc. I loved my time there and thought the people were fine. I'd go back.
I've faced plenty of rudeness in the south by native southerners. From simply not getting a "thank you" when I hold the door to being cussed out for whatever reason. I've gotten rude stares, side comments, cold shoulders, the whole nine. No region is perfect. Like I said above, we have a rude side, and it exists. Only difference is 1. we dress it up, aka "bless your heart", and 2. we're not on top of each other every day like many people up north, and 3. sunnier weather.
Other than "yes sir" and "no maam", people literally do these things everywhere, all over the country...Are you seriously implying that the south is the only place you ever see these things? So if I drop something in Idaho, the person behind me is just going to walk away and say nothing?...
It's all subjective. When I moved to DC from SC I was expecting rude, cold, robotic people everywhere and it was the complete opposite. Yeah no one brought me a pie, but plenty of strangers bought me drinks, people were super helpful if I needed directions or recommendations, my coworkers were amazing, I would get "excuse me's", "thank you's", etc. Uber's were nice, strangers were nice in the store, neighbors waved back, even Metro workers weren't tyrants, etc. I loved my time there and thought the people were fine. I'd go back.
I've faced plenty of rudeness in the south by native southerners. From simply not getting a "thank you" when I hold the door to being cussed out for whatever reason. I've gotten rude stares, side comments, cold shoulders, the whole nine. No region is perfect. Like I said above, we have a rude side, and it exists. Only difference is 1. we dress it up, aka "bless your heart", and 2. we're not on top of each other every day like many people up north, and 3. sunnier weather.
Having grown up in Chevy Chase, lived in Potomac and then out in Loudoun County, I have watched the metro Washington area explode. Of course, there are some pleasant people in the area but OVERALL, I have found the Upstate of SC to be a much more pleasant culture. I’m glad you enjoy DC and you can have it.
Last edited by LynchburgLover; 12-18-2018 at 02:54 PM..
Having grown up in Chevy Chase, lived in Potomac and then out in Loudoun County, I have watched the metro Washington area explode. Of course, there are some pleasant people in the area but OVERALL, I have found the Upstate of SC to be a much more pleasant culture. I’m glad you enjoy DC and you can have it.
Having grown up in Chevy Chase, lived in Potomac and then out in Loudoun County, I have watched the metro Washington area explode. Of course, there are some pleasant people in the area but OVERALL, I have found the Upstate of SC to be a much more pleasant culture. I’m glad you enjoy DC and you can have it.
Yeah, and growing up in South Carolina, I've seen many different types of people and personalities. Most good, but some bad. I'm glad you're enjoying it here, I'm not surprised. A lot of times all you need is a change of scenery. Still doesn't mean there's no exaggeration.
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Originally Posted by NDL
I am not taking it personally. If I had taken it personally, my tone would've been different .
As to your point, outside of your personal assurances, what evidence do you have that this won't happen?
"People are nice, if you're nice to them"
Spend a week on Long Island or in Boston, and report to me your findings.
Sure if you say so.
I've never been to LI or Boston, but I have been elsewhere. I have a friend who grew up in the Upstate, went to school in Charleston and now lives in Boston. He's fell in love with the place, wont ever stop talking about it. I have another friend who went from Greenville to Boston and she's happy. They're the only two I know. Like I said it's all subjective. You will always see a new place different from the place you grew up. Same way Lynchburg and I saw DC in different ways.
I'm pretty sure the people up there are ruder than the people down here, not debating that, but that doesn't mean a native being rude to you here is impossible.
As for evidence just look at data and trends. Charlotte boomed in a different era. Charlotte also exploded in finance, also in a different era. US growth rates are the lowest they've been in 80 years and will probably go lower. We have different growth patterns now than in the past. NC also has different laws and culture than SC that has influenced cities. If Charlotte was in SC, it wouldn't be as big as it is today.
They really can’t understand the stress and the general malaise that comes from year after year, decade after decade comes from dealing with large urban areas. I know some thrive on it but we are thrilled to be out and away.
I couldn't agree more!
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I have relatives in Brooklyn and on Long Island. The distance between both places is about 38 miles; the last time they attempted the trip, the ride took about 2.5 hours. All of this is text on a page, until you're forced to live with it, day in and day out.
2. That's 3 cities out of dozens. 3 of the biggest cities in the southeast. That's how big cities are everywhere. Do LA and SF feel "western?". Is NYC the best representation of the northeast? Miami is barely even Florida. Greenville is nowhere on the level of Charlotte, Nashville, any of those cities.
Charlotte grew from nothing very fast. You're blaming people for making it feel "not charmy" when the city destroyed much that on it's own to build parking lots. Atlanta was not as bad, but much of Atlanta is still a few decades old. Alpharetta has 66,000 people today, like Greenville, yet barely had 3,000 in 1980. There wasn't much charm there to begin with...
3. Not every single person who is moving to those cities is moving from the north. 58% of people who moved to Fulton Co Atlanta in 2016 moved from elsewhere in Georgia. Even Charlotte Observer said last week that the biggest movers to Charlotte are not New Yorkers...but other Carolinians. It's not surprising.
4. Not every single person who moves from the north is an ultra liberal Yankee. Same way not every native southerner moving to another southern city is "conservative, red, southern pride." Regardless of politics and ideology, the northerners I've met have assimilated well. Everyone is going to want something how they had it where they came from. Southerners who move out west still clamor for Chickfila and Zaxbys. They dont go "well, I live in Cali now. I guess I'll get with the program and eat In and Out", no, people go "I miss Chickfila! Yall need to build more in LA!"
Greenville and the Upstate will be fine. The whole city is not a big ball of charm. There's nothing charming about Haywood, Woodruff, Pleasantburg, 25, Pelham, White Horse, or WH. Nothing charming about Powdersville or much of the suburbs which have followed the typical sunbelt mcmansion windy road and cul de sac model.
Anderson, Spartanburg, Easley, etc have some charm, but are still majority sprawl suburban. No city is just overflowing with charm. Even Charleston. Downtown is about half antebellum style, half projects. Not much really charming about most of West Ashley or James Island. N Charleston hasn't even been a city for 50 years. All this fear over losing charm is ridiculous. SC will always be charming in its own way, transplants or not. As long as we don't chop down the palmettos or ban bbq we're fine.
The day of driving to Main St to the local mom and pop, then coming home and rocking on the porch with some sweet tea under the big oak tree is longggggggggggg gone. It's not some new phenomenon. But you can still be as southern as you want. I still see oak trees, still see local stores, I still drink tea, and if I look hard enough I can find a chair. Just because I can't do it like they did in Forrest Gump doesn't mean things are lost.
Also, Nashville does have a quite a bit of nice charm and they've done a good job and preserving the past. Like someone else said, you don't have to be small. I'd take Nashville's style over Abbeville's 7 days a week.
That's not the point that I am making , and I am not trying to give either one of you a hard time, as I appreciate your contributions to the forum.
On one hand comes the thought that: "Growth is good, and I want (much) more of it," along with the sentiment that Greenville's inherent character won't change. On the other hand comes the thought that: "you'd better be careful, because explosive growth can bring negative effects that are inalterable."
The thought that (and this is not echoed by either of you ) (explosive growth) "will not change the character of Greenville" is inaccurate, and easily disproven.
As much as I don't want for this to be incendiary, to get to the heart of the matter: (IMHO) it seems as though a handful of posters, who suffered under the economic malaise of Greenville's past, are willing to sell their birthright for a bowl of pottage.
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As for my personal take on growth, in only one instance have I seen growth managed excellently. I won't name the State/County/Municipality, but what made this municipality a success (in my eyes): the State would not allow any new development to take place, without the installation of left and right hand turning lanes (into the new development), and the burden was laid upon the developer to fund such improvements.
Also in this municipality, major funding was provided to buy large tracts of land, to be set aside as land preserves; major initiatives sought to preserve local heritage.
The major highway running through this municipality spans six travel lanes in each direction.
Is there traffic? Yes, but it's effects are somewhat mitigated. Rush hour is rush hour, but it spans a reasonable 2-2.5 hour window. In this municipality, do big box stores/strip malls exist? Yes, but there's a fair amount of protected heritage as well.
The cost of living in this municipality is high, but there's a value attached to the cost. Why don't I live in this municipality? Because it isn't for me, but I can see it's appeal to some people.
I agree developers helping with infrastructure.
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. I never remarked about political affiliation/leaning 
