Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Unfortunately, partly due to my own mistakes--as mentioned above by me, this thread has assumed the role of grievance counselling and condolence offering.
I don't want to get into a heated exchange here--But I have plenty of ammo of my own should another attempt is made. But let it be, please!
But let me try to salvage the situation and talk about larger issues--such as 'unconditional love'. I don't have answer to that. But I know that even human parents can (and do) kick out/disown their own flesh-and-blood; and I don't think there is any stronger love than between parents-children.
So would a dog put itself in mortal risk to protect its master/human-friend? And I mean, a risk where, say some intruders with long knives and/or fresh food (meat) were to try to kill the dog's human family member? There would be obvious risk to the dog--a club or a threatening knife--or a tempting morsel to distract the dog. If dogs do that then, in my opinion, that comes as close to 'unconditional love' as it can be?
You might think about moving this to the Pet forum, or one of the sub-forums there. You may find people who are willing to discuss this with you in greater depth. There is also a Philosophy forum if you want to talk about "unconditional love" in general.
This forum, in particular, is no place to have a heated exchange, and I find your comments about "ammo of your own" to be disturbing.
Also, because I lost my mother a year ago and have a SIL who lost her only child to cancer, I am somewhat tempted to lob some ammo myself. For the record, I have also had to euthanize animals, most recently a 12-year-old cat about 10 days ago, and am not unsympathetic to you. But you seem to have come to this Grief and Mourning forum with a chip on your shoulder and it is simply not the right place for that.
This forum, in particular, is no place to have a heated exchange, and I find your comments about "ammo of your own" to be disturbing.
Also, because I lost my mother a year ago and have a SIL who lost her only child to cancer, I am somewhat tempted to lob some ammo myself. For the record, I have also had to euthanize animals, most recently a 12-year-old cat about 10 days ago, and am not unsympathetic to you. But you seem to have come to this Grief and Mourning forum with a chip on your shoulder and it is simply not the right place for that.
If you had read the posts then you would have realized why I reacted to ONE person's posts the way I did; There have been dozens of people interacting in this forum and I didn't complain at all about them or to them.
I am not going to press the point here.
As far as I can concerned the Moderators can Close this thread. I am grateful to everyone for their input--with particular thanks to @NewNorthMainer.
Dear OP, I am so very sorry for the loss of your little Maggie. I too, "humanize" my animals, and they are my babies. I think there are a number of us out there. We had to put our little Maggie kitty to sleep in May, and I miss her all the time. It took months for me to be able to go into our guestroom where she stayed much of the time. I am almost terrified of losing my only other kitty whom I've had almost 18 years. I think we as pet lovers, especially those without children, tend to wrap ourselves up in our pets so much that they become our lives. Grief is very personal and each person is different as to the time it takes to recover.
It sounds like your wife is very understanding and realizes you were speaking out of your grief that night. I too think having a support group of some sort, maybe a trusted friend or two even, that you could talk to would help you. I also agree with what others have said about getting a new baby to love. You will never replace your darling girl, but you can help another little furry soul have a wonderful life with a lots of love and care.
Hugs to you and your wife, my friend.
Smilin, I am so happy your have a new kitty you can love and who loves you! Animals certainly make our lives so much better. Hugs to you too.
Dogs don't live long, and that is the hard part. While they are with us, they give us joy because of their unconditional love and loyalty. This makes it that much harder when they are gone. There are so many dogs spending the holidays in shelters waiting on someone like you and your wife. If you can, adopting a dog would help you. Of course, this dog will not replace Maggie, but he/she will love you and give you someone else to devote your time to.
I am sorry for your loss... blaming your wife seems like you are going a little too far. did your dog die prematurely--did she die from bad dog food? didn't you both have input on what to feed her? did your wife insist on cheap dog food while you objected but went along with her?
Thank you all to the recent posters. I believe if you read the posts you will see all, if not most answers. I believe I wanted a different kind of debate and the original idea was to put it inside the 'Great Debate' forum except their higher criteria prevented me from doing that.
I am going to 'Unsubscribe' myself from this topic after this post and may and maynot come back again. It is up to the Moderators to keep it open or Close it. My request is to Close it. Here is what I really wanted out of the debate.
In the Great Debate forum I would have asked questions like whether it is okay to have a prolonged grief for a pet when there is so much human misery around? I would have asked whether missing a pet more than an immediate loved one can be 'normal'? I would have asked if it would be 'normal' for pet loss to alter a person's outlook on life? Perhaps making him/her more somber for long/permanent terms? I would have asked whether we see a reflection of our own mortality in a pet's loss? A reflection of our own growth and decline through our experiences with our pets?
Time. It takes time. It's different for everyone. Everyone grieves differently. I will still cry when talking about my grandmother's dog Brandy. We grew up together and it was awful when we lost her. Sadly, I've lost many dogs in my lifetime. I'm a total dog person. I'd rather spend my day with 100 dogs than 5 people.
About 10 months ago we (wife and I) lost our dog Maggie. We are voluntarily 'child free'. We live in relative isolation--no neighbors. So for many years our lives revolved around Maggie. She was our daughter. I won't go as far as to say she would be like our biological daughter but pretty close.
After her loss I have mostly restricted myself to be within myself. The old me--ready to make new friends and ready to make plans with friends--is still unable to reach out to people. There is even some rudeness or at least antipathy toward friends--sort of like 'Couldn't care less' or 'take it or leave it' while making plans.
We are unwilling to replace Maggie. Her toys are still in our living room. We watch her photos and videos almost on daily basis. Visit her grave in our backyard often. Her bed is still on our bedroom floor--though she would almost always sleep with us on our bed.
We--especially I--are inconsolable. It may seem odd to a lot of people here about a pet but we just are. I am unwilling to replace her memories by adopting another dog. I think that will happen if we get another dog. And I also want to, philosophically, fully 'digest' the sense of the loss and ponder the larger issues of life through the loss.
While I have subtly blamed my wife for feeding her processed dog food (you know, Purina etc) leading to Maggie's death last night I crossed the line and blamed her in front of some strangers in a pub. I was rightly chided by the strangers. Wife and I could barely choke our tears. I was wrong. She knows that and she knows I know it. But I have yet to apologize to her for the last night--fearing it will cause a new flare up. I probably will.
Question: Have I gone too far in mourning? Is it okay to stay in grieving as long as it takes?
Yes, you're way overdoing it. If I am a jerk, forgive me, but I'm going to say it--it was a dog. It was not a human being. There is a difference. You don't equate a dog or any pet as being on the same level of importance or significance as a human being, even an older one. You just, don't.
That's not to say your pain is silly or irrelevant. I'm simply saying some perspective is in order--and look, I'm one who myself sometimes needs a swift kick in the pants to be reminded of perspective with respect to other things, so arguably I'm one to talk. It is certainly understandable for you to be down in the dumps and not feeling particularly great when you remember your loss. However, to mourn this long does seem a bit much, and blaming your wife--so not cool, and again, I'm not perfect, I've had to apologize to my wife for different things, and initially I didn't want to. However, I was wrong, even if it took me awhile to accept that I was and respond accordingly.
It's okay, especially earlier on, to be sad, depressed, to feel like you don't know if you want another dog because it won't be the same and you think you'll forever be unfairly measuring the new dog up against your memories of the older one. If you don't feel like another dog, don't get one. It's allowed. However--no, you don't blame someone for supposedly killing your dog because they fed the dog Purina. Heck, I feed my dog generic, and I wouldn't blame myself as negligent if they passed. It's dog food, not rat poison. I'm not a veterinarian, but I would conjure up a guess that it was simply the dog's time, the food had nothing to do with it, and the dog would've died even if it had been fed the most expensive dog food in the store.
Again, dogs are not anywhere near as important as humans, adults or children--however, I am going to say this. Dogs are not usually going to outlive their owners, their owners are going to see them die eventually. You know this going in, you can't be surprised, shock, and mourn forever when the inevitable happens.
Here's the comparison--let's say you have children. Your children will eventually grow up and turn into adults, they will now have opinions different than how you raised them and the autonomy to make their lives what they want it to be, and they are going to do things you raised them NOT to do (not necessarily criminal or sleazy etc). They may move out-of-state for their job and you now may only see them sporadically, and now they're married and this other person is more important to them than you are--all of this after you were their world for 18 years and after all you've done for them. However, you KNOW going in that such is part of the deal with being a parent.
When the time comes, it's normal to be sad for awhile, and to see them living their lives the way they want to, but are you going to be paralyzed forever because your children aren't children anymore, when you knew all along it was going to happen, when it's meant to happen? The same goes here--you know you are going to outlive your pet, you can't be surprised and mourn forever at the inevitable.
Disregard what shyguylh says. He's not exactly known for his compassion.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
