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Old 07-23-2012, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Earth
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You're free to move to a country or city that bans guns like NYC or DC....seems to work in those places huh?
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,729,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Had someone in the theater started peppering his face area with anything, even a .22, it would have caused him to retreat to cover at a minimum. He couldn't have calmly stalked around and shot anyone he could put his sights on. As it was, he was completely unopposed in a "gun free" zone.
Not picking on you in particular Bideshi, but I can't quote everyone. (Well, I could, but that would make a mess of a post.)

Anyway, no one knows what that guy would have done in a different situtaion. No one. Not even God. Give it a rest, all of you.
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
431 posts, read 982,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago View Post
I don't think i said that, I was arguing against the "owning" or "buying" a gun to protect yourself from violence.

Guns begat violence on family/yourself. Owning one is far more likely to hurt you or someone you love. My response is only for those so far off the rationale ability to understand probabilities that they think they should buy a gun to protect themselves from a mass murder.




Though I think your logic is off (how many mass murders by knifes, pointy sticks, or rocks has anyone carried off).

Personally, to me buying bullets and weapons should have the same level of government double checking as when I buy my allergy medication. 1) track all purchases 2) limit max purchases per day 3) systematic flag odd behavior
Where are you getting your information from? Simply owning a gun does not increase your chances of getting hurt.

I never said one should buy a gun to defend themselves form a mass shooting like this as they are so rare.

Cities like Chicago, DC, Los Angeles, etc all have pretty much banned guns. They also have the highest murder rates in the country. Coincidence?

I was trying to make a point. In countries without guns rioters, criminals, etc all find some other tool to carryout their violent intent.

Tracking the purchase of guns is useless when criminals obtain their guns illegally. Gun bans are useless since criminals obtain their guns illegally.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,505 posts, read 6,480,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mic111 View Post
The last thing we need is ego maniacs posting on public boards how to do a better job at this sort of thing. Moderators? Can you take this down?
Over-react much?

Quote exactly how my post showed anyone how to do this better, what I said is common knowledge by anyone that can think logically.

An AR15 is a medium range firearm, Handguns and shotguns are close range firearms...he was within 35 yards of most of his victims.

Can you also supply evidence by way of quoting me that shows I'm an "egomaniac"?


Or do you just get frustrated with discussions when you have no ammo so you call names? Do you need some quiet time?
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:43 PM
 
4,738 posts, read 4,433,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superorb View Post
Where are you getting your information from? Simply owning a gun does not increase your chances of getting hurt.
OF all the arguments someone could put together, this one is the most uninformed


At your request, sourced and referenced:


- Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence : Guns in the Home

PROBLEM: Keeping a gun in the home increases the risk of injury and death. Gun owners may overestimate the benefits of keeping a gun in the home and underestimate the risks.
DID YOU KNOW? Where there are more guns, there are more gun deaths.

Gun death rates are 7 times higher in the states with the highest compared with the lowest household gun ownership. (Harvard School of Public Health, Harvard Injury Control Research Center, 2009).

An estimated 41% of gun-related homicides and 94% of gun-related suicides would not occur under the same circumstances had no guns been present (Wiebe, p. 780).

Household gun ownership levels vary greatly by state, from 60 percent in Wyoming to 9 percent in Hawaii (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 2001).
DID YOU KNOW? Keeping a gun in the home raises the risk of homicide.

States with the highest levels of gun ownership have 114 percent higher firearm homicide rates and 60 percent higher homicide rates than states with the lowest gun ownership (Miller, Hemenway, and Azrael, 2007, pp. 659, 660).

The risk of homicide is three times higher in homes with firearms (Kellermann, 1993, p. 1084).

Higher gun ownership puts both men and women at a higher risk for homicide, particularly gun homicide (Harvard School of Public Health, Harvard Injury Control Research Center, 2009).
DID YOU KNOW? Keeping a gun in the home raises the risk of suicide.

Keeping a firearm in the home increases the risk of suicide by a factor of 3 to 5 and increases the risk of suicide with a firearm by a factor of 17 (Kellermann, p. 467, p. Wiebe, p. 771).

The association between firearm ownership and increased risk of suicide cannot be explained by a higher risk of psychiatric disorders in homes with guns (Miller, p. 183).
DID YOU KNOW? A gun in the home is more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide, or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense.

Every time a gun injures or kills in self-defense, it is used:

11 times for completed and attempted suicides (Kellermann, 1998, p. 263).
7 times in criminal assaults and homicides, and
4 times in unintentional shooting deaths or injuries.
DID YOU KNOW? Many children and teens live in homes with firearms, including ones that are loaded and unlocked.

One third of all households with children younger than eighteen have a firearm (Johnson, 2004 p.179).

More than 40% of gun-owning households with children store their guns unlocked (Schuster, p. 590).

One fourth of homes with children and guns have a loaded firearm (Johnson, 2004 p.179).

Between 6% and 14% of firearm owning households with a child under 18 have an unlocked and loaded firearm (Johnson, 2004, p.175).
In almost half of unintentional shooting deaths (49 percent), the victim is shot by another person. In virtually all of these cases, the shooter and victim knew each other (Hemenway, p. 1184).
DID YOU KNOW? Parents may underestimate their children’s access to guns in the home. Women may not know about guns in the home or be unable to assure safe storage, despite wanting it.

Among gun-owning parents who reported that their children had never handled their firearms at home, 22% of the children, questioned separately, said that they had (Baxley and Miller, p. 542).

For unmarried mothers, when an adolescent boy reports a handgun in the home, nearly three-fourths of the mothers say there is no handgun in the home (Sorenson, p. 15).

Of youths who committed suicide with firearms, 82% obtained the firearm from their home, usually a parent’s firearm (The National Violent Injury Statistics System, p. 2).

When storage status was noted, about two-thirds of the firearms had been stored unlocked (The National Violent Injury Statistics System, p. 2).

Among the remaining cases in which the firearms had been locked, the youth knew the combination or where the key was kept or broke into the cabinet (The National Violent Injury Statistics System, p. 2).

Among married women living in gun-owning households, 94 percent believed in safe gun-storage practices but 43% of those households stored their family’s gun unsafely (Johnson, 2007, pp. 5, 8).

Women are less likely than men to own the guns in their homes (Johnson, 2007 p. 4).

Women are less likely than men to report a gun’s presence in the home (Johnson, 2004 p. 180).
SOLUTION: Without stronger, sensible gun laws, thousands upon thousands of people will continue to die and be injured needlessly each year. The Brady Campaign fights for sensible gun laws to protect you, your family, and your community.

Sources

Baxley, Fances, MD, and Matthew Miller, MD, ScD. “Parental Misperceptions About Children and Firearms.†Archives of Pediatric Adolescent Medicine. 160 (2006): 542-47.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System, accessed 10-01-2009

Cook, Philip J, and Susan B. Sorenson. “’We’ve Got a Gun?’: Comparing Reports of Adolescents and Their Parents About Household Firearms.†Journal of Community Psychology 36 (2008): 1-19

Harvard School of Public Health: Harvard Injury Control Research Center. Homicide – Suicide – Accidents – Children and Women. Boston: Harvard School of Public Health, 2009. Homicide - Firearms Research - Harvard Injury Control Research Center - Harvard School of Public Health

Hemenway, David, et al, “Unintentional Firearm Deaths: A Comparison of Other-Inflicted and Self-Inflicted Shootings,†Accident Analysis and Prevention 42(2010): 1184-1188

Johnson, Renee M., MPH, Tamera Coyne-Beasley, MD, MPH, and Carol W. Runyan, PhD. “Firearm Ownership and Storage Practices, U.S. Households, 1992-2002.†American Journal of Preventive Medicine 27 (2004): 173-82

Johnson, R.M., et al. “Storage of Household Firearms: An Examination of the Attitudes and Beliefs of Married Women with Children.†Health Education Research Advance Access (2007): 1-11

Kellermann, Arthur L. MD., MPH, et al. “Gun Ownership As a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home.†New England Journal of Medicine 329 (1993) 1084-1119

Kellermann, Arthur L.MD, MPH, et al. “Injuries and Deaths Due to Firearms in the Home.†Journal of Trauma, Injury, Infection, and Critical Care 45 (1998): 263-67

Kellermann, Arthur L.MD, MPH, et al. “Suicide in the Home in Relation to Gun Ownership.†New England Journal of Medicine 327 (1992): 467-72.

Miller, M, et al, “Recent Psychopathology, Suicidal Thoughts and Suicide Attempts in Households With and Without Firearms: Findings from the National Comorbidity Study Replication,†Injury Prevention 15(2009): 183-187

Miller, Matthew, David Hemenway, and Deborah Azrael. “State-Level Homicide Victimization Rates in the US in Relation to Survey Measures of Household Firearm Ownership, 2001-2003.†Social Science and Medicine 64 (2007) 656-64.

Miller, Matthew, Deborah Azrael, and David Hemenway. “Household Firearm Ownership and Suicide Rates in the United States.†Epidemiology 13 (2002) 517-524. Originally accessed through Harvard School of Public Health: Means Matters. Source of Firearms in Youth Suicides. Boston: Harvard School of Public Health, 2009. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-ma...s/index.html.|

Schuster, Mark A., Franke, Todd M., Bastian, Amy M., Sor, Sinaroth, Halfon, Neal. "Firearm Storage Patterns in U.S. Homes With Children," American Journal of Public Health 90(4) (April 2000):588-594

Sorenson, Susan B., Cook, Philip J., "'We've Got a Gun?': Comparing Reports of Adolescents and Their Parents About Household Firearms," Journal of Community Psychology 36 (1) (2008):1-19

The National Violent Injury Statistics System. Youth Suicide: Findings from a pilot for the National Violent Death Reporting System. Boston: Harvard Injury Control Research Center: Harvard School of Public Health, 2009. http://www.sprc.org/library/YouthSuicideFactSheet.pdf. Originally accessed through Harvard School of Public Health: Means Matters. Source of Firearms in Youth Suicides. Boston: Harvard School of Public Health, 2009. Youth Access to Firearms - Means Matter Basics - Means Matter - Harvard School of Public Health.

Wiebe, Douglas J. PhD. “Homicide and Suicide Risks Associated With Firearms in the Home: A National Case-Control Study.†Annals of Emergency Medicine 41 (2003): 771-82.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,505 posts, read 6,480,867 times
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It sounds like some people who are not typical gun enthusiasts want to have guns for defense but have not been properly versed in their used, care or responsibility....the answer is to help educate them not take the right of ownership away from everyone.

Perhaps it's time to go BACK to teaching firearm safety in school!
We could also open more community ranges and classes.



......now surely we can all agree that education is the answer then!

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Old 07-23-2012, 11:00 PM
 
977 posts, read 1,328,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborgt800 View Post
It sounds like some people who are not typical gun enthusiasts want to have guns for defense but have not been properly versed in their used, care or responsibility....the answer is to help educate them not take the right of ownership away from everyone.

Perhaps it's time to go BACK to teaching firearm safety in school!
We could also open more community ranges and classes.



......now surely we can all agree that education is the answer then!
Community ranges? That sounds like socialism to me.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Earth
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^^^^ That's a big stretch....we have community rec centers and ball fields....nothing Socialist about them and no reason not to have community ranges so the people can be educated and become proficient on their own.

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Old 07-24-2012, 09:05 AM
 
977 posts, read 1,328,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborgt800 View Post
^^^^ That's a big stretch....we have community rec centers and ball fields....nothing Socialist about them and no reason not to have community ranges so the people can be educated and become proficient on their own.
That's all socialistic. If a private entity isn't able to provide the service than obviously the market can't support it. Typical leftist seeking government handouts and subsidies to support what the god-given private sector should provide.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:25 AM
 
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The Denver Post reports that gun sales and concealed-carry permit requests are all way up after the shooting.

To tell you the truth, that actually makes me feel considerably safer. I don't own a gun, but I feel pretty good about the fact that many Coloradans do.
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