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I'd carry the .357 over the .45 ACP. I haven't dug out my reloading book, but I have to expect the .357 loaded to the top charge for a 158 gr or larger carries more energy and penetration power than a 230 gr. .45 ACP. I'd go for a semi-jacketed HP or a FMJ. Figure on using all the rounds, even if it goes down.
Since I own a .44 Mag S-W, I carry that.
There you go.
Learn to reload the revolver quickly, it can be done. The extra rounds in the 45 aren't going to matter if the six from the 357 don't.
Black bears coming after you are going to eat you if they can, playing dead doesn't work.
You can get that 357 ported to help reduce muzzle flip a bit, that and good fitted grips and with the options between a 357 and 45, you'll be doing as good as you can get.
A real good set of running shoes, quick detachable everything you are carrying and and the best solution of all:
It occurs to me that I've kind of let my thought process get stuck in a rut. I've gotten used to thinking that having 9 rounds loaded, as well as a quicker reload, would be an advantage - but the reality is that in any circumstance in which I would actually be defending myself against a charging bear, I'm not going to have time to reload. I may not even have time to squeeze off all 9 rounds. The 6 rounds in my Dan may be all I have time for anyway, so maybe I am better off going with the best available .357 round.
Maybe I should rethink my choice of caliber. I just get used to the .45; it's my "beater gun," my favorite handgun, the one I feel most accustomed to and comfortable with. It's easier to pack than the long-barreled .357, and draws quicker and cleaner. I'm just more used to carrying it around, and it's the one I keep next to the bed for home defense (with different loads, of course.) Just seemed like a natural transition to keep it in the tent next to my sleeping bag. The .357 might be a better selection, though.
I don't know how familiar you are with the Dan Wesson, but it has interchangeable barrels. If I swap out the 6-inch barrel for a 4-inch, would I be losing anything significant in terms of muzzle velocity? In this application, that is? A range of less than 10 feet? I don't think accuracy would be that much of an issue at that range, but it would make it easier to pack and to draw quickly.
6" over the 4". If you have both barrels, try them out. Much of it will come down to personal preference though, what you can handle best. When you get to heavy loads in the 357, the longer barrel does help with control but with either, nothing beats practice and lots of it. If you can handle the ergo with the 6", the added velocity will help although you're splitting a pretty low number anyway. Get all you can.
Open sights too, forget the scopes, the lasers, the this and that. You're going to shoot till empty and then reload no matter what. Remember, your talking about a bullet that can get lost in your pocket and an animal that can weight hundreds of pounds intent on munching on you. Whatever you do, don't shoot from too far away, you need to hit it and when it starts running towards you, your orifices will all get tight and you don't want to be 4 rounds into it with 3 misses and praying you can get the other 2 off and reload before Mr. Molar crunches on your behind.
..357 158 grain flats. or, 10MM auto or a .41....and that is only if this is black bear country. The other writer was right, you will be lucky to get off 1 or 2 shots....a .44 is for the very experienced and the recoil substantial (there goes that 2nd shot)...the .357 can pop two off fairly quickly and the penetration from that round will be significant....the 10mm is very quick relative to a revolver and therefore, viable...the .41 is basically a bit tougher 10mm once you get around 210grains.....
All 3 would work.....and all 3 would probably allow you up to 2 and maybe even 3 shots before the bear is ripping you apart for lunch....
To you, it's kill or be killed....to Yogi, it's "Hunters, it's what's for Dinner"......choose wisely and above all...practice, practice, practice....
If in my tent, I would prefer a gun I could shoot lots of rounds in a short period of time. In this case I would opt for the .45 you have mentioned, but loaded with hard-cast ammo. I know that this ammo is not readily available in .45ACP pistols, however.
Regardless of the gun you choose for bear defense at close range or in your tent, hard-cast ammo gives you an edge with penetration.
As much as I like the 45 ACP, in this case, I would go with the .44, you have 2 things going for you, mass and velocity, the hide of a bear is thicker than that of a human, a 45 will most likely just p1$$ off the bear.
Forget not that energy kills nothing. The tiniest of cuts through an artery is enough to kill an animal, if enough blood can be pumped out by the heart before it kills you.
Animals could care less how much energy one cartridge has vs another. It doesn't know it was shot, it doesn't understand that it is dying either, even if that is the case. What it understands is that you are either food or a threat and it will deal with you accordingly until you are eaten or killed, unless it is killed first. (talking bears here)
That energy we all talk about so often, lasts for a mere millisecond before it is dissipated. In that time, the bullet had better damage some vital organ like the brain or damage some other part of the body that incapacitates the beast so that it can't do whatever it was trying to do to you. It doesn't matter if the bullet that causes that damage is a 22 or a 460 mag.
In any case, the biggest bullets are smaller than the piece of dirt the animal accidentally swallows as it consumes you. So long as the bullet can get through the hide to hit what your intended body part target it, that is what counts. That means knowing what you are trying to hit, not hoping a bullet with gobs of energy that gets close is going to do the job, it won't.
The person who said you'll get a couple of shots off is right, sort of. You can get a couple of well aimed shots off if the bear is as close as suggested, 10 feet or less but you'll probably be able to get several more off too, they will just be going in the general direction of the bear unless you buy your underwear at the local ironworks.
Train well and you can get every round out from that revolver or semi-auto before the bear can lick you. That doesn't mean though, that the bear will stop at the first lick because they like KFC too.
I am a huge fan of the .45 ACP, but I would have to be downright desperate to use it against even a small bear. I also have a .357, and while that is not optimal for self defense against an angry bear, I think it is a better choice than the .45. Of course, rate of fire and capacity are relevant, too. My .357 is a S&W model 60, so that's 5 rounds. My 1911 has a 7+1 capacity. My guess is I'll never have to protect myself from a bear with either of these. I wouldn't hike alone, and a bear is not likely to attack a pair or more. But it does happen once in a while. And having something is better than having nothing.
As much as I like the 45 ACP, in this case, I would go with the .44, you have 2 things going for you, mass and velocity, the hide of a bear is thicker than that of a human, a 45 will most likely just p1$$ off the bear.
44 Mag, 300 gr, 890ft lbs of energy, 1130 FPS
45 ACP, 230 gr, 378ft lbs of energy, 860 FPS
45 Colt, 250 gr, 410ft lbs of energy, 860 FPS
Believe it or not, several grizzly/brown bears have been killed with .45's up here, even with ball ammo:
That said, I keep a .454 Casull loaded with Corbon hard-cast ammo in my tent. When berry picking I carry either this .454, or a Marlin .45-70 loaded with factory hard-cast ammo. But if the idea is to defend myself from a bear that breaks into my tent while I am inside, nothing beats my 1911 Ruger .45 with a 10-round magazine, if spraying and praying
according to my buddy who is an experienced outdoorsman, bears have several advantages when it comes to gunshot wounds. First, a slow heart rate, which means slower blood pressure loss, a major factor in gunshot stopping power. Second, thick hair and fat layer acts as body armor for the bear. You want a big bullet that will penetrate to vitals. .454 Casull or 45-70. I recall reading Ross Seyfried saying that if you rely on a .45 ACP against a bear, make sure to save one round for hari-kari when the bear starts tearing into you.
This is an exert from a professional guide that works both the Teton Mountains and Yellowstone National Park. He gives talks on bear encounters and "what to do if".
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Pay attention to your surroundings!! In most cases hikers could have avoided encounters with bears by paying attention to the surrounding area they were about to hike into and left the area once they spotted a bear nearby.
With the average distance of 14 feet that hikers have first noticed a bear nearby prior to an attack tells us that most people stare at the ground while hiking. Over the course of two summers I walked down several trails 100 yards and then stepped off to the side of the trail 6 feet, sitting in plain sight with a cooler and clipboard, not one single hiker ever noticed me. Its a wonder we don't have more mauling's each year, and probably due to the fact that most bears would rather avoid humans.
If you encounter an aggressive black bear or mountain lion react aggressively. Fight back aggressively. Black bears and mountain lions are predatory and have been known to stalk, or test humans and eat them if given the chance. On average 3 people a year are killed and eaten by black bears in North America. Most of those deaths have occurred in the Great Smoky Mountains, and Canada. Often with women napping or reading a book while their husbands were fishing nearby.
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I got in a hurry and forgot to mention ammo in my last post. I have always been taught to use hard cased ammo with bears. The hide is tough, the meat is tough, and vitals are a long way in there. Using any kind of expanding ammo will normall stop the bullet long before it reaches anything vital, including trying to get through a bear skull, so the use of hard case ammo to get the best penetration, is the best way to go, IMHO.
Average distance of 14 feet, from a bear that can run 44 ft per second. How many rounds can you get off, after you first fill your drawers, fumble with getting your weapon out of your holster while pumping gallons of adrenalin through your veins, and getting it on target????
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